[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Hi Youssef, great to have you on the show today. I'm really looking forward to our talk. Dunkin' has such a recognizable brand, and what's happened with it over the past months has been really fascinating. Can you start by introducing yourself to our listeners please?

[Youssef Basali]

Yes of course. So, hi Matthias, thank you very much. It's uh, my pleasure to be here. I'm Youssef Basali, currently the Chief Marketing Officer of Dunkin' Bain Alux. I took on this role actually almost exactly a year ago. And yeah, I'm really excited to get into the details.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Great, great to have you. Before we get into this turnaround story of Duncan, what does your role as CMO Benelux actually look like from a day-to-day perspective? What are you doing?

[Youssef Basali]

So, I mean, it's pretty dependent. Currently, I oversee all the marketing activities, of course. We have a pretty small in-house team and the company structure is really set up as a family. The thing is, since we haven't come from the most normal circumstances the past year, my role has been a bit turbulent. So in the beginning phase, we spent a lot of time kind of looking at, okay, what are the priorities? What's urgent at the moment? you know quick wins short-term plans long-term plans so my current day-to-day looks i have several weekly check-ins with different partners with different parts of the team operation logistics etc But at the same time, I also spend a lot of time in contact with the U . S. team and all the support that we get from Inspire Brands, which is the mother company of Duncan, of course. So yeah, I spend a lot of time in office and it's a lot of hands-on work. I like to be very involved. in all the activities that we carry out. So whether that's beverage testing to donut flavor testing, you know, the day to day just depends on what kind of projects we're working on. So it's very fun and very creative. Yeah.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

When you took on this role in the beginning, the brand was in a very difficult position. It was going through a bankruptcy process. What was the first thing that you realized needed to change when you started?

[Youssef Basali]

Well, there were, of course, several points that were urgent. I mean, when a brand comes back or in Dutch, we call it a 'door start.' So if it's trying to be revived or you have a revival of a brand, there are several things that need to be done, and that's even outside of my role, but need to be taken into consideration. But OK, given all the circumstances around, we really, really needed a new strategy. There was a clear missing part of the last two years. And it wasn't clear where the company was trying to go, which customer was it trying to reach, and how was going to reach them? And I think that was one of the biggest red flags that came to my mind. Um, so besides focusing on quick wins, it was of utter importance for us to know—okay, what's the strategy going to be, and how are we going to do it in such a short time, to make sure that the brand revival starts as a success. So there's several points to it. But, you know, I don't know. I can save the goodies for later.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

We get into that. Let's get directly into this. So when the bankruptcy happened in the first place, I assume that was a big shock. How did your consumers locally, but as well, how did the global brand of Dunkin' Donuts react to that and perceive that?

[Youssef Basali]

I think this is a really good question because it gives us, you know, or it gives listeners a good insight into what it was like for the team. In the back office and all the amazing baristas etc that we have in store how they felt so from a customer pers or let me start with the brand perspective um Our internal team, some were aware of the situation and some were not. And the unfortunate circumstance, the way it took place, was that it was leaked out into the media or by accident released before we'd officially known that the company had gone bankrupt. So what took place after was, for example, as soon as I found out, we had to ensure that we put out a press statement and announce to our customers what was going on. In October, it was the start of October. So October 8th, the company was declared bankrupt. And right after we were told, 'Okay, we can keep the stores open until an administrator comes on board and we figure out what's going to happen next.' as soon as customers found out about this and it was all over the media sources and on the news we started getting a bunch of questions on social media email phone customer service you know you name it everything was there um so the unfortunate part was that customers were surprised but then there also came a lot of you know negativity and you could really see who was loyal to a brand who wasn't etc so from a customer perspective it was a bit of a shock But some of them, at least from the feedback we'd gathered, some of them were not surprised. You know, there were complaints that were coming up back and forth and they were saying, you know... Oh, we're not surprised the company's too expensive. The products are overpriced. They haven't they've been repeating things. It's been unstable in regards to pricing, for example. And from a brand perspective, I mean, the international brand if I may say, kind of, or could have seen this coming, which is unfortunate. There were a lot of, let's say, I wouldn't say radical, but... a bit of odd behavior odd decisions taken throughout the year beforehand uh that kind of led to you know the bankruptcy uh the thing is though is that and this needs a bit of history 2017 is when dunkin officially launched in the netherlands it was opened up by mr basali and he had a huge team of them. That you know had soup a lot of passion to get this started because originally I think around early 2000s or right before 2000 Duncan had already tried to launch in the Netherlands but that didn't work out so they'd already gone bankrupt 2017 came back into the market big launch it was a huge success and for several years it was a you know an awesome run we had a good customer basis a lot of buzz and excitement around the brand but nonetheless the international brand saw that you know, The team that was currently holding was capable of really pulling out all the opportunities and all the potential of Dunkin' into the market. And then, you know, a few years later, add on to it, Belgium. So from a global brand perspective, they were obviously upset— or let's say, frustrated— because it damaged the brand image in our market, both Netherlands and Belgium. But they had strong belief later on, you know, after some discussions that the best way to fix this was to have the original team take back over the company and support them in any way possible. To make it happen, to bring that excitement, that success back. So that's kind of a sum up of, you know, from a customer perspective, it was disappointing all around, but the, you know, the mother brand believed in us and the customers were, some were almost happy to see it, which is unfortunate to say.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

And others were you know left without their favorite products or part of their weekly routine you mentioned that some of these loyal customers turned away or they were not necessarily surprised by the bankruptcy so they were obviously not so super happy Now, rebuilding trust is something that's really difficult. How did you do that? What concrete steps did you take in order to regain credibility, especially among these customers that are your kind of like target group? Like when you speak about pricing, the product, the communication, what did you do?

[Youssef Basali]

Well, it first meant that we needed to actually listen to them. So one of the first things we did was, unfortunately, online. Or it can be seen from two perspectives. It can be seen as a fantastic way to collect, you know, opinion, to understand who your customer is, what they actually think. And at the same time, it can become like a hub of negativity. So during the first period, like I previously mentioned, there was a lot of negativity and bad reputation or perception of the brand. So one of the, you know, our first goal was to understand, OK, what is it that customers thought went so wrong? And what can we do about it so we immediately looked into three main points or two yeah let's say two main points one and i think most important of all was pricing A lot, a lot of feedback repeatedly mentioned that the pricing was simply too expensive. Customers felt like they weren't getting a valuable product. Now, if I may share one of Duncan's most important values is that Duncan must be valuable. It's very, very simple. Hearing this was extremely upsetting. It was disappointing. So one of the first point was pricing. The second point was transparency. So we had a lot of cases both with customers and also partners or you know companies logistical companies that we work with that were left with a bitter taste in their mouth simply because of the bankruptcy a new company coming in means that everything has to start from zero So we're like, okay, what can we do to show the customers that we're back? We're the fun, familiar, valuable Duncan that they have seen in the past and they loved so much. Um and how can we do it quickly so one of the first things was okay we need to be transparent first of all while we're working on a strategy and you know on the back end or in the in the background um let's figure out this pricing what's going on so Duncan I mean it's on an international level not just in the Netherlands we focus very much on you know singular donut pricing boxes which is you know your bulk purchases uh so box of six box of 12 and of course our beverage line now there weren't so many complaints about the coffees for example and the pricing of the coffees um but it was mainly you know surrounding the donuts themselves yeah so and and it's disappointing or it's it was a bit um relatable because if you think of your favorite brand or you think of a brand that you like to visit frequently on a weekly basis even if it's on a monthly basis and throughout one year the pricing has changed. Approximately six times you're you're going to be frustrated as a customer so we completely understood you know the feedback and it was like okay well this wasn't okay this can never be okay So yeah, like I said, we immediately sat down with the entire team. Okay, what's the pricing we've had in the past? What's the pricing we've had so far this year? And what is the pricing that we can offer right now? So we fixed that. was fantastic lowered the pricing of the donuts made the boxes actually valuable because the idea of course is if you buy a singular piece or you buy four donuts four pieces and i'm offering you a box of six that box of six needs to off like it needs to be valuable in some sense so if you're buying four and getting two then you will you know buy the box of six instead so these were very simple things in my opinion at least that we addressed first well you need to know Of course. Yeah. So it was it was almost like no brainers, you know, like things that should have really been addressed a long time ago. So we did this. And then straight after that, we said, all right, how is it that we want to reach customers as in how are we going to communicate with them? We have a blog, we have social media, we have in-store assets, you know, visuals, etc. And we decided, or at least from what we saw, our social medias is where we got the most feedback online, of course. But at the same time, it's where we were able to reply and respond to customers easiest. But it's where our target audience also was. So our target audience is Gen Z. And it's, you know, anybody between the age of 18, because legally we're not allowed to. you know advertise or aim to get younger than that but truly it's gen z and anything up to you know the age of 60. i mean we have so many products so you can aim for so many but the main group is gen z So, we said, okay, Gen Z is, of course, chronically online. So, we need to make sure that we're transparent online, we're transparent on our responses, our customer service, etc. And that's what we did. So, we immediately addressed issues of refunds. you know, simple things to kind of show customers that there's somebody now there. It's not an empty desk ignoring you and just taking your money, basically. So, yeah, I mean, I could go into more detail, but I feel like it's it's a super long story.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

But I want to go into this, all the social media, online marketing stuff and how you address Gen C. Just like before, because you spoke about the pricing strategy being one of the main sources of frustration for your customers. But I think there was a little bit more to that, right? Like Dunkin' Donuts rather being perceived as fast food or maybe being too American. So there was a mix between... the price being too high for the value, but then on the value itself, so on the donuts themselves, not necessarily meeting expectations too. So what did you do to change this perception of... Dunkin' Donuts, if I'm like that's my words, obviously right. Of being overpriced fast food American. Um, quick, not high value. How did you change this perception? I'm interested to hear.

[Youssef Basali]

No, it's fantastic. I think the best way I can explain this is if I break it down into different stages. So I'd say the first stage, which I was just talking about, is right after the company got bankrupt and started up again. So like I said, we used social media as the main way to quickly communicate with our target audience. So this is November and then going into December. What we did is, for example, November, we had Black Friday, awesome deals, kind of getting the customer traffic back in, showing them what the donut prices are all about. then in december we decided to do okay again we need a quick win christmas is coming up we still haven't completed our strategy yet There's a lot going on in the back end. So we said, all right, how can we just like make it fun for our customers to keep them engaged with the brand, show them, you know, what Dunkin's really all about. And at the same time, keep it valuable. So we said, okay, social media seems to be a great way right now for us to reach them. We're going to do an online advent calendar. It was a bit of a crazy idea. So what we did is we compiled a bunch of deals together for the whole month of Christmas or the whole month of December. And we allowed customers to basically get access to a bunch of awesome discounts and so forth at the Dunkin' stores or online. This didn't generate in terms of sales a lot, but what it did do is it showed customers that we were trying to offer them something valuable, something special. something fun and for us as a brand that's important so that was you know december then when we came around january when things started to settle a little bit more nonetheless though extremely hectic we were like okay on a global level there's a strategy that duncan international wants to follow on a local level for both our belgian and our dutch markets we need to you know coordinate and find out how it is that we're going to really revive the perception of duncan And the main goal was, were beverage-led fueled by food? So beverage-led means that, you know, we focus mostly on our drinks, which is completely the opposite of the strategy that was happening before are taking place from 2017 till 2022. And then we focus on food in the sense of an extra so we're very well known in our markets for our donuts that's not going to change and i don't mean to say that um in an arrogant way but duncan is perceived and there's a reason they rebranded you know two three years ago from dunkin donuts to just duncan and that's because we're not just a donut brand We've mastered, in my opinion, the donut game. We have fantastic donuts, but we also have fantastic coffee and amazing other drinks. So the idea was, you know, we said, this way we're going to show customers that we're not just...we're fast I do want to highlight that when people label duncan as a fast food chain it's like a compliment but at the same time it isn't we want to stay fast in the sense that when you walk into one of our stores you should not be waiting 10 minutes to receive your order However, fast food usually has a negative energy or a negative perception around it. All of our donuts and all of our product, or let's say all of our donuts are handmade. And this was something that we hadn't really shared frequently enough with customers. Our beverages, our coffee is of super high quality, fair trade. It's, you know, just genuine stuff. We don't... We don't look for any shortcuts when it comes to ingredients, etc. So okay, what we did is in January, we said we want to focus on bringing that buzz back to Duncan, and it's not just going to happen with continuous campaigns and continuous discounts. I mean, that's of course part of it, but not. It's not every month you're going to have an Advent calendar. In February, for example, or let me explain the story before, else I'm going to go into a rabbit hole. So what we decided was okay— we need to focus on the beverages, but at the same time, we need to see like how we can keep that excitement coming if we have a month where we don't have anything super new coming out. How do we keep the customers coming back? I said okay, we're going to look at the seasons or let's say groups or each month, and give it a flavor, give it a theme. Okay, so how do we do that? January, we focused on New Year's Resolutions. People want to lose weight, they want to be healthy, less sugar, and you know, we still want them to come to Duncan. You don't need to come in just to have donuts. So okay, we're not going to offer you a donut because it's not the healthiest option for you if you're trying to lose weight, but what we can offer you is a beverage. We launched some new drinks that had fantastic flavors, but then zero sugar to get those customers in. Matcha at this time of the year was starting to pick up. We hadn't clicked onto that just yet, or at least we weren't capable on an operational level to get that execution right. So we only launched two drinks. We said, okay, we're going to launch a matcha, a skinny matcha, skinny vanilla matcha, sorry. Vanilla flavored, great drink, you know, still. Still similar or still reaching the target audience that we're aiming for, Gen Z, etc. But then, you know, just giving them a chance to come into Dunkin' without thinking, I just consumed a lot of calories. Because, again, that's something we kept hearing. Then we went into February, March, April, and February was all about Valentine's. So we did this not just on an in-store level or a product offering level. We wanted to keep consistency across everything we did. So all types of assets. In-store assets needed to look the same as what we were sharing online what we were sharing on you know advertisements online on posters etc and we focused a lot on just giving customers new flavors in march though is when it really started to take a turn around So if I may continue. Yeah, go on. Amazing. Thank you. In March, we launched a flavor called Toasted Marshmallow. But we did a little play on it. We called it Toasted Marchmallow, right? So we offered a hot chocolate, an iced latte, and a hot latte. And what happened is we started, you know, we always have these fantastic donuts, this donut range. But what ended up happening is... This flavor picked up a lot of attention online. And this is when we started to see the real power of social media. So we're like, 'OK, I'm sitting in a meeting with a colleague from the UK, from Inspire Brands, and with some of our internal team. And we get the question from the US about whether we can clarify a line that our products are only available in the Netherlands and Belgium.' Or, like, why there was some demand in the United States then, all of a sudden, exactly— and it was like, what we we hadn't realized, right? So what actually happened is that overnight, one of our Facebook posts or ads, no, it wasn't an advertisement, sorry, an organic post went viral and reached a million views. Wow. Toasted marshmallow hot chocolate—I think it was that, or the the hot latte, and it was like a fun visual with a dunking cup and a bunch of marshmallows and chocolate, etc. So we were like, okay, I mean, we're very glad people are fond of this product, but uh, okay, wow. Our social media just got a big boost. So we went on from that to then thinking, okay, now we know that we can, it's either like a one-time lucky coincidence, not coincidence, but like an event where, you know, one post picked up the algorithm, sent it to the wrong side of the world. We're just going to move on from here. But no, the same thing then happened in March, like I discussed with you, where we launched the Dubai Donut, etc. So basically, to kind of wrap it up, because else I won't ever stop talking. Um, the we focused very much on product innovation, transparency with customers, and being valuable, and these three things, and of course, the fourth—sorry, the strategy— the beverage-led strategy, these four things really made a tremendous change for our our company as a whole. Whether that's performance, whether that's customer perception, whether that's satisfaction.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

So you move back much, much closer to your target audience and to your once being loyal customers. Fixing some of the basics, but in the end, I think like the way you describe it, it actually went quite deep. It's almost a re-engineering of the brand, like this beverage launch strategy. For example, really giving value to the products, perceived value to the products by giving something special, making the customer feel special, obviously. So I guess through these activities, you re-established some credibility and trust. but then obviously the next challenge you already spoke about the toasted march mellow going viral but that doesn't happen well that maybe happens overnight but then you already need to be working on that to bring yourself into this position that something can become viral. So let's talk a bit more about this digital and social media strategy, about how these became engines of that revival. You said that social media was crucial. How did you decide where to focus? Like in the beginning, your target audience is Gen Z. Was it like TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, a combination of them? How different are they? Like, I guess, especially TikTok and Instagram then, is that kind of like the same strategy or is it different?

[Youssef Basali]

It's um well okay no it is different um so to give you an idea when we'd initially went viral that toasted marshmallow example that was on facebook um and of course you know even before the end of the year so back in last year november december We'd, I'd already been part and some of us or some of them, our current marketing team had already been part of the previous team, but only on like a support basis to kind of help them get things done because things were getting out of hand. So we already had a good idea of what the social media groups, whether that's on TikTok or on Facebook or on Instagram, looked like. But then in December, we really needed to go back and look at it again. So what we realized is, okay, the majority of our audience on all three platforms is female. That's very crucial for us to know. And if you look at Instagram, for example, the majority is, it's a really high, like, it's not very balanced. 70% female, 30% male. Wow, that's a surprise.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Yeah and um, you know that was also another focus point for us, but part of another story, but 70% female, 30% male, and uh, all between the majority are between the age of 18 to 20, 18 to 24. And then from 24 to 32 is the second largest group. And then the least dominant of the audience, let's say, is the group between 40s or high 30s to 60s. So that's Instagram. TikTok was...

[Youssef Basali]

Albeit that we can't always see under the age of 18 exactly how much of the audience it is. But let's say from 18 up until 24, again, the majority of the audience. So in regards to, but then there's more of a balance between female and male on TikTok than there is on Instagram. However, if you look at Facebook, Facebook is completely it's like flipped around. So Facebook's majority of the audience sits between the age of 32 to 44, and there's a good balance there. It's like 45% male and then 55% female. So it's not too off. But the interesting thing about Facebook is that we were really able to see like what type of content was working better and what type of advertising was working better on Facebook than on Instagram. And, you know, because they're both, you know, meta products, often what we do is we'd set up. You know when you're working with a small team trying to bust as many like pieces of content etc out as quickly as possible for the quick wins when you're like tight on deadlines it's very efficient to you know just when posting on instagram to also set the same ads for facebook but we realized that doesn't work it's completely different audiences so what we did is on facebook the focus was try to appeal to the older audience, to the older age group. And on Instagram, try to appeal to the younger age group, which is really our target audience. So to give you an idea of, let's say, a customer profile. our facebook customer could be somebody between you know the age of 30 to 40 or yeah 42 let's say they tend to visit facebook or come across our page very early in the morning Or around 7 to 8 p . You know, it makes sense. In the morning, people are having breakfast or waiting for their partner. They check their phone. Okay. And on the other hand, when you'd look at Instagram. Our customer profile was mainly female between the age of 18 to 24. And interestingly, this I thought was super interesting or let's say funny for us. Our advertisements worked best at midnight. Instead of throughout the day. So why is that? It's not like we sell alcohol or club tickets or something. No, it's because our audience, so the younger, so Gen Z females, were mostly visiting Instagram between 10 p . m. till like 2 a . m. And we had to adjust all the advertising to match these needs, right, to match these customers. So that's what we did for Instagram and Facebook. And for TikTok, we actually came a little bit late. So for TikTok, we wanted to put an investment behind it where we could get a professional agency to help us create content that was authentic. But at the same time, we were really dunking. And to do that, we needed, you know, more hands-on in the team. So for TikTok, we decided to build a strategy only in April. We started, no— sorry, we started May this year. We spent a month kind of coming up with what type of content, what's the goal of our TikTok?  So is it branding? Is it brand perception? Is it just online sales? So we kind of made it, we made a combination of all these points and we decided to outsource the creative work and the strategy to a team that we work closely with. And that's how we are currently managing all the social medias.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

So you need kind of like different strategies per channel, per age group. You need different content. per channel, per age group, so it's kind of like, it's almost like separate channels in themselves.

[Youssef Basali]

Absolutely yeah you definitely need different strategies or a different approach to all three um so we see instagram as you know a way to we kind of use it for branding um so it's not it's not purely Let me give you an example. If you look at what the US does, for example, with a lot of their social media pages, and take Dunkin' As an example, they post a lot of memes and jokes, funny stuff that really targets Gen Z. So what we do is we've tried to experiment with that a little bit and it didn't pick up as much traction with our customer bases as it did in other markets. So what we have decided to do is we try to keep a balance of keeping it fun— as in a bit goofy— to attract the younger audience and keep it interesting for them. But at the same time, we use Instagram as like a portal or like a window into the Duncan brand. We release new products when we have an exciting launch, such as the pumpkin spice beverages, sorry, the whole pumpkin spice beverage lineup, or the Dubai Donut, or the summer mocktails. So we made shaken drinks that are based on cocktails but then of course without the alcohol. We post on, we post or launch these campaigns, beverage-driven campaigns using Instagram. At least that's the starting point. And that has worked fantastic for us so far. I'll give you one example of how... For us, knowing what platform reached what audience and with what efficiency, how that has translated into performance or sales. The example that I wanted to mention is the matchas, right? So I had already previously told you that the matchas were present at Dunkin' for a long time. So what we decided to do is an important thing. At least from a marketing perspective, especially with a brand that's, you know, just gone bankrupt, so much customer feedback, et cetera, was really understanding. What it is that your customer wants, what their interests are and so forth. So between March and May, we did a market research. We spent a lot of time. visiting all our stores and talking to customers talking to the teams compiling a bunch of feedback and data to decide what it is we were going to lead with next in regards to beverage innovation but also like store enhancements and so forth so what we did is we used The social media to hop onto this like growing matcha demand and we use the social our social media Especially Instagram as a driver to really blow the sales up So to give you an idea, in April, we were like, okay, we need to test these drinks. We have a bunch of ideas on how we can improve or launch a new matcha lineup. And we can execute it in May. So what happened is we came up with, let me think, it's three, besides the original, three new flavor additions. Strawberry matcha, mango matcha, a white mocha matcha, and of course we had the original. And I'm talking iced. So we posted, we prepared some assets, we sent everything out to the stores. And in the start of May, we launched our new matcha lineup with all these fruity, nice flavors and the one white chocolate or white mocha edition. It picked up a lot of traction on Instagram. So off the top of my head, I think just over 800,000 views. But the difference this time was that it wasn't an audience from the US. It was an audience from our market— Netherlands, a bit of France, a bit of Germany, but also Belgium— so that's okay. And we wanted, or this was super, super cool to see, because the incrementality on how we used social media to increase the sales of the matcha every month was just fascinating. So in April, we sold only 1,000 matchas in total. I'm using the examples of the Netherlands market right now because it's where we're most prominent. 1,000 matchas in April. In May, we sold 8,000. Okay, that's quite an increase. Yeah, in June, we sold uh sixteen thousand and in July, we were right above 21 or 22 thousand units or let's say matcha sold. So what we've done is every month we would focus on highlighting the fact that we had this fantastic new beverage and it was mainly the strawberry edition that people just loved. So we would post about it online through our social medias. And it was really Instagram that we saw pick up the most traction. Facebook blew up a bit later, but then it was... you know, a lot of visibility, which is fantastic, but we weren't reaching the right customers. A lot of that customer base was made from the US market. So on Instagram, we're like, 'Okay, we're reaching our Dutch locals, et cetera.' It's working because, I mean, the sales of the matcha are just blowing up and customers like the product. And then, right around, I think it was June, we introduced a Dunkin' version of a, or let's say, a very Dunkin' flavor of a matcha, a strawberry shortcake. That went completely insane online. So we were sitting at, you know, I think 8 million views, a lot of likes, a lot of engagement. So customers were, you know, really like... oh, where can I get this? Why is this not available in the US? Why is this not available in Germany? We had other Dunkin' markets actually reach out to us asking, could you guys please share the recipe and the assets with us? We'd like to launch it. Do you do that, by the way? Yes, yes of course. Um, yeah, it doesn't hurt to to help out another market. It's an international brand, so you make a lot of international relations. Sometimes you know, they have fantastic campaigns that we want to learn something from too. So then it's interesting to work together to see. The German market did great with the Biscoff launch and Biscoff campaign. So, you know, I was just asking them a month ago. Guys, like, what was the most successful beverage for you? What donuts sold? What did your customers think of the flavor, etc. And based off of that, we can you know, make some constructive feedback and apply to our you know, research and development. So it was um, Social media as a driver to kind of push our strategy forward, it worked incredibly well. And I would say, especially from the period of May onwards. In the end of March, we launched the Dubai Donut, which went viral. And to give you an idea of just how big the social media blow up was for us over the period of April, May, June, July. we had just regarding dubai donut and matcha beverages 65 million views organically we didn't spend a cent on those So it was really fascinating to see.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Very, very impressive. Now, you shared these three examples that worked very well. The matcha example, the toasted marshmallow donut, the Dubai donut launch. So a perfect mixture kind of like between the strategy that you apply to the brand coming from the pricing, coming from the product innovation to how you play that on social media. Now, when you look back, what would you think was the key ingredient that made your social strategy so powerful? Was it like timing, being authentic? Was it just like the content format? What was it? Can you share with us? Because that's obviously a tremendous success. That I guess like kind of like everybody would like to repeat.

[Youssef Basali]

I think it was, well, thank you. I take that as a compliment, and I'm sure the team will as well. I think it was a mix of all the, or let's say several of the mentioned elements. So the content needs to be... You know, very dunkin' recognizable, and it needs to be fun. You don't want it to look like the typical boring ad. Gen Z just doesn't pay attention to this stuff. The other thing is is that it shouldn't require too much thinking. We noticed that the what's the word the attention span of customers has decreased in comparison to what we would see a few years ago. So how much time they would actually spend reading our caption, our post, or watching our short-form video is much less. So I think the content that the team has put out has been... doing a fantastic job, but it needs to be visuals that are very Dunkin' recognizable, but that are also very eye-catching. And then mix that in with, what's the word? Being mixed that in with being, you know, so okay, let me put it this way. If customers see us on Instagram, continuously responding and interacting with them, they're more likely to ask questions. They're more likely to pay attention to us. So we had a bunch of DMs come in. Instagram, for a while, turned into our customer service center, which is not ideal by any means. Um, especially for our team, it was an extra workload, but what it did mean is that we were able to see, hear, and listen and respond directly to the customer and with them. So I think it was a mix of that. The fact that we were very reachable and we were like not just some global brand, you know, with no face or no character behind it. We gave customers the feeling that, or at least the understanding that there's somebody really behind here that wants to help you, that is open for your feedback. And I think that definitely helped make our social media the success it is right now. And absolutely timing, like I mentioned for Facebook and for Instagram, understanding your customer behavior and their profiles made a big, big change for us. Yes.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

When you think about what we talked about in the beginning, the perception of the brand as fast food, being too American, overpriced, low value for the price, to something that is so close to the target group— being so close, understanding your target group, living your target group, and being enthusiastic about the products itself— I think that's probably where this magic source is that has fueled your success, together with the understanding on how to execute something of that. well i guess that's the three main ingredients as i said very very very impressive thank you for sharing that with us yousef now on the flip side you shared a lot about what has worked But now if you would look back, do you have some lessons that you could share with us or other marketers that you have learned that you can give us when a brand is in recovery mode? What would you recommend to do? How to tackle it?

[Youssef Basali]

I would say the most important thing is understanding your customer and understanding what your brand is trying to do. So, of course, strategy is of utter importance anywhere. But I think for us, especially for myself, the biggest changing factor was all the feedback that I'd dealt with on a first-hand experience in store. listening to the customer seeing how they interact with our you know our SLTs seeing how they view the menus was it difficult for them to ask a question about allergies you know it's a simple stuff like this and you could you know think of it as more operational aspects but I would say one of the most important points in a brand's revival is understanding your customer. What is their perception of the brand right now? Are you okay with it or are you not? Does it align with the strategy to come or not? And if it isn't, how are you going to change it? So for us, the most effective means was using social media. That just did a fantastic job. We were able to directly reach our customers. We were able to keep them engaged, or, you know, change their perception, and at the same time offer them exciting offers, et cetera, exclusive to social media. So maybe for another brand, it works better through in-store advertising, or digital out-of-home, or newspaper magazines, or lifestyle magazines. You know, it really depends. So you must understand. Where is your customer? And I'm not talking just a customer profile that's put up on a PDF or a presentation presented in a meeting once or twice a month. I really mean understand what it's like to walk through your own stores. Through the good times, the bad times, I mean, busy, quiet, raining, hot— you name it. You need to know what it's like. What does the customer feel? What is it? What are the points that you think could be improved? And always, I would say this is my second point: feedback. You need to keep open ears. You must listen to what customers, but also colleagues and perhaps what competitors say about your brand. That's really where all the perception is, right? And you're not going to be able to determine what steps to take next if you don't keep your mind open or have an open mind in the sense of taking feedback or taking criticism. So this is super, super urgent. and i would say besides you know combining a market research which you know where you understand your customer you understand how your stores perform what experience they give off combining that with really knowing what the digital experience of your customers is and what your digital ecosystem looks like that's where you'll probably have a pretty good idea of where to go next so yeah Very, very clear.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Thank you so much, Yusuf. This is really inspiring. Thank you for sharing. Like last question now for us coming to the end. What's next for Duncan? What's your plans? What do you have in mind?

[Youssef Basali]

So as we speak, we have a really exciting collaboration coming up, which I unfortunately cannot share anything about yet. But if I look at Dunkin' for the next year, I see a challenging year in the sense that we have to outdo all the great efforts that we did this year. Always the relationship of success, yes. Yeah it's uh it's gonna be a fun challenge um no but the way i see duncan in the next one to two to five years really is um a complete shift of perception and not just the perception that we've changed right now We're focusing on an international level, both on a local level, very much on allowing customers to understand now, at least for us in Holland, they know that we sell fantastic beverages. But what's coming in next is savory. So if I may ask you something, do you drink coffee?

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

A little bit, not too much.

[Youssef Basali]

Okay. Do you drink tea or you drink water for sure?

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

I drink water.

[Youssef Basali]

Okay. So for a coffee drinker or for somebody that drinks tea or matchas, for example, they tend to drink at least one of these products or one of these categories once a day. I'm a coffee drinker. I drink at least two to three coffees a day. I also have a sweet tooth. And, you know, I can promise you there's no way I'll be able to eat a donut or two every day. So this was the first point, right? We already changed this. The perception is, right, or the strategy is we're focusing on the beverages because customers come in every day for a coffee. They come in every day for a bottle of water, for a tea, for a hot chocolate, but they will not come in every day for a donut. That consumption just doesn't exist in these markets. It's too much. What they do eat every day is a sandwich. They do eat a toast with avocado. They might eat a croissant every day. So this is the next step for Dunkin'. This is where we're heading next. The focus is on savory. It's, I think, going to really move the brand forward and keep it alive. On an international level and, you know, give it the opportunity to expand and hopefully reach new audiences that we don't have at the moment, which is, you know, the people that don't love the sweets but do like the coffee. Now we can also offer them something else like a fresh, you know, delicious sandwich. So that's that's what's coming.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Very nice, very nice. There is a Dunkin' store around the corner here, actually next to the school of my kids. They're big fans, by the way. So when I told you that I'm going to speak with you today, my being cool as a dad rating peaks at the moment. Thank you so much for sharing this inspiring story. Really, really interesting. And I learned myself a lot. Thank you very much for your time talking to me and to all our listeners. Thank you.

[Youssef Basali]

Thank you very much for the opportunity. It's my pleasure.