#13 Scaling Partner Marketing Success on Amazon | with William Hamer-Jones

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Partner Marketing Podcast. Today's guest here with me today is William Hamer-Jones, VP of Partnerships at PartnerBoost. Will's had a great journey in partner marketing. He's worked at LTK in London, Impact and IPG in New York, and Ogilvy in Singapore. We'll talk about what PartnerBoost is up to and how they help brands to grow. We'll also dive into how partnerships work differently in the US, in Europe, and in Southeast Asia. And of course, we'll hear some of Will's personal stories from working around the world. Will, it's awesome having you. Welcome to the show. Hey, Mattias. Great to be here! Can you maybe start, like we talked a lot, right? But I know about your career. Partnerships is a bit of a red line that's going through all of that.

But you've basically worked in all regions worldwide, in Asia, in the US and in Europe. Can you give a bit of an intro of yourself, just like sharing what you've done, where you're coming from, who you are? Of course, yeah. My name is William. I've been working in partnership marketing for 15 years. I've worked all sides of the business from agencies, publisher, network, and I'm very fortunate that affiliate marketing has taken me all over the world. Like you said, I've lived in London, I've lived in Singapore, I've lived in New York, and I've worked with some of the biggest brands like Apple, Spotify, New Balance, Net-A-Porter, and yeah, fantastic industry to be working in. That sounds super exciting. When you, as I said before, right, when looking at your career, you had different roles or titles.

Now you're vice president of partnerships. You've been director of partnerships, vice president of partnerships before at all these different companies. So that's going a bit as a red line through your whole career. What has drawn me into like partnership marketing and working with on the partner side, working with partners? I think people. I mean, this is a partnership-driven business. There's a lot of intelligent people I'm surrounded by and uh you know, like I said, these events are all over the world um and yeah uh, the channel has grown, I mean affiliate 10-15 years ago as you know, it's very small channel but now it's 20% of the brand's business and uh, it's becoming ever more important. Is there a special moment in your career that you would say that has shaped your approach to partner marketing?

Is there something that was really influencing your way? Yeah, I mean, leaving England was a big step for me. I went through a very quick interview process and then a couple of weeks later, I moved to the other side of the world. I didn't know what I was doing. I moved to Singapore and I didn't even know where Singapore was. And uh, yeah, once I left England, I kind of really opened up my horizons and my views of the world, met lots of different people, different cultures, and uh, yeah, that really was a stepping stone for me to leave England and go out there and explore. I can imagine for me it was the other way around actually right as you know I lived in London for three years which was really eye-opening and a special experience and for me leaving Germany to go to London, but that's obviously much closer.

Speaking about PartnerBoost, you speak, you work at PartnerBoost now. What do they do? What is PartnerBoost all about? Sure, we're the leading Amazon affiliate network in the space; it's called Amazon Attribution, so we power Amazon affiliate programs for over two and a half thousand brands. Uh, sixty percent of the biggest Amazon stores come from China, so a lot of our brands are Chinese. The VP of Partnerships, I look over network integrations, agencies, strategic partnerships, and you know this is a very new space; it's only been around for a couple of years. So everyone's very excited about this. Before, it wasn't possible to run affiliate programs through Amazon. Now you can. So not only can you do your D2C, you can do your Amazon store as well.

And if you look at consumers, I shop exclusively on Amazon. So as a brand, it's very important to be in that space, to be able to engage with your publishers and grow that side of your business. Okay, going a little bit more into the detail, just like to really understand it. Amazon itself has the biggest affiliate program in the world, right? So partners, I just restarted the question. Just going a little bit more into the details about how it really works. Amazon itself has the biggest affiliate program in the world, right? Yeah, so basically there's been historically called something called Amazon Associates. So brands used Amazon Associates to work with partners and promote the Amazon business. Historically, that was a bit of a black box model, right?

Brands didn't know what partners were sending them traffic. They weren't able to engage with those partners. They couldn't increase commissions. That is sort of the legacy sort of affiliate side of what Amazon's business. A couple of years ago, they opened up their API and I said, 'hey, we want to invite people to send us traffic.' Partner Boost built an affiliate network around that. And ever since then, we've scaled very quickly. Like I said, we've got 2,500 clients. We've acquired them in the last 12 months. And now publishers are joining our platform. They can work directly with those brands. And again, there's publishers. Amazon is a very important piece of that. Their consumers are buying on Amazon. And we're helping brands scale that activity as well.

Okay, so you use the Amazon API, and you created a piece of technology connecting to this API, connecting all these shops, these 2,000 shops that you just mentioned, and kind of like creating an own sub-network, or an own network itself for these 2,000 brands, where you then, on the other side, connect all the different partners and publishers. Is that right? Correct, yeah, and a lot of publishers already are sending traffic to Amazon but now through our technology they can have a direct relationship with the brands; you can adjust commissions; you can have you know much more scalable and transparent relationship. How is this different to Amazon Associates or the original Amazon affiliate program? Is there any conflicts between these two?

Because when you speak about commissions, for example, has that to be the same or do you have to work exclusively with the Amazon Associates program or through the partner program? How is that or is that in parallel? I mean, this is not harming Amazon Associates. You can either use Amazon Associates links or Amazon attribution links, right? It's really dependent on what. For a publisher, what is more commercially viable? You know, at the end of the day, we're sending traffic to Amazon. Amazon love working with us because they're bringing those consumers back to their website. Amazon has actually lost a lot of traffic over the years to you know Timu and Sheehan and Walmart who have been very aggressive in that space taking away those consumers. So as a network we're sending that traffic back.

And yeah we've got publishers that use Amazon Associates as well as Amazon Attribution links. It depends really how they want to work. And you can basically work with all brands that are present on Amazon. Correct yeah. All the big ones like Adidas HP whatever you have. Exactly. I used to have an agency so I used to have a lot of CPG brands coming to me and saying hey I want to do affiliate marketing. They didn't have a dot-com website. We can't do anything. But now you can really tap into that segment, that CPG segment. And brands who have a lot of budget, who want to send traffic to Amazon, we can facilitate that. And we're going to be doing that through Tradedoubler, which is very, very exciting.

How is the money flow then? Is the commission paid by the brand themselves or does it go through Amazon? Yeah, so with Amazon Associates, the commission was paid by Amazon. But with our platform, it's paid via the brand. But again, because the brand gets visibility, because they can engage with those partners, they can grow them, they're very happy to do that as well. In the US, this is very interesting, something called a brand referral bonus. So Amazon will actually pay back the brand anywhere between 5% to 10% for any affiliate traffic that comes through to their website. So brands love that because they're getting paid by Amazon. They can then either keep that commission themselves or they can pass that on to their affiliates as well. That's only in the US.

Hopefully we're going to get that in Europe quite soon as well. That's super exciting. How does that work for brands that already have an affiliate program for their own shop and now work through you or through Amazon with another affiliate? marketing program so then they have basically two right uh so it's it's if they it's only if they go through the affiliate channel they get that brand referral bonus no i mean um in the setup of the amazon affiliate program like you have a brand that has their own shop and they sell as well via amazon now they have an affiliate program already for their usual shop that like let's say adidas you can buy stuff there or you can buy it via amazon so then you have basically two affiliate programs correct yeah so again you as a brand you need to go where the consumer is right so amazon is the elephant in the room you can't ignore that but now they can do their dot com as well as their amazon store as well which is very exciting before that was a bit of a black box they couldn't see from an affiliate perspective where that traffic was coming from and who they can engage with but now they can through this new way of working with partners. Do brands prioritize if they sell through their own shop or if they sell through Amazon? They should prefer to sell through their own shop, right? So through their.

com website. Yeah, it's a great question. That comes up all the time, right? Obviously, through your . Com website, you get the first-party data, you can control the experience, and it's more affordable. But again, like consumers, I buy exclusively through Amazon. You can't ignore that. So you can have a dot-com strategy and you can have an Amazon strategy. But like I said earlier, Amazon has always kind of controlled that space and it's very difficult to monetize and grow it. But because we're now in that space and we're working with Treadedoubler, you can take a two-prong approach and do your dot-com and Amazon, and run it through the affiliate channel and get a full circle of where your consumers are, what partners are working. Getting that visibility is very important.

I can imagine it's quite different when it comes to the popularity of the brand, right? If you have a big brand with a big own store being on Amazon as well, it might be something different than if you have a small brand that might have their own store as well. But not everybody knows that where Amazon is the main selling channel, right? Right, yeah. We work with brands that are SMB all the way up to enterprise. And we work with brands that are solely on Amazon. But yeah, this is an opportunity that is for everyone. As long as you have an Amazon store, we can work with you. Okay. So you connected over 2,000 brands, you said, Amazon sellers. You do that in the US? I know that.

And you're starting in Europe as well. Is that the two regions where you're active in now as PartnerBoost? Or does it work in any country, basically? So Amazon Attribution works in about a dozen different markets. So it's North America, Mexico, most of Europe. Germany is actually the second largest Amazon market in the world. They have a market share of 50% in Germany. There you go. And when I was there recently with your team, I just saw Amazon vans everywhere. And I was like, okay, I get it. And a lot of our Chinese brands want to work in the German market. It's very popular. We work with pretty much every single electronic brand, everything from Hoovers to washing machines to phones. And they're very excited about expanding this into Europe as well.

Just as a side note here, because it's so actual, do you see any impact from the tariffs that are employed now in the US on these Chinese sellers on Amazon? Great question. I've literally been asked that a dozen times in the last couple of weeks. I think it's going to phase out. What you need to understand is the US represents 5% of the world's population, but 30% of spending behavior. They are the biggest spenders out there. And right now, it's really a waiting game. I think they're going to meet in the middle. I think by May, this is going to get wrapped up. I've already been speaking with Chinese brands who are slowly pivoting and saying, 'Hey, can we go off to the German market because it's so large.' I think Germany is expecting kind of like a flood of products coming in now.

100%, 100%. But I think it will work its way out. I mean, you've got the biggest exporter and the biggest importer. You know, banging heads at the moment. It's a waiting thing. Basically saying that it will sort itself out over time. Yeah, I mean, they have to. There's no way they can't work together. Yeah, things will change, I guess, like underneath, but in the end it will probably be roughly the same, right? Exactly. It's Trump and Xi Jinping, very opposite characters. Yeah, it will work out. Okay, good. Thank you very much. That is super interesting, right? I find it is really, really exciting. It's such a great opportunity as well for partners, right? Because now they have the opportunity to work for brands that they haven't been really able to work with before.

That's very exciting. Switching a bit to partnership marketing across the different regions as you have worked in so many different ones. We are at PI Live here in Miami at the moment. So maybe start with the US. What would you say characterizes the US market when it comes to partner marketing? Yeah, I mean, the US things get done. I've lived in New York for six years. I got to meet every different partner, lots of enterprise brands in the US. Affiliate marketing is a very serious channel. It represents about 20% of a brand's revenue. I've met some of the biggest banks in the world, and 50% of the acquisition comes from the affiliate channel. So, yeah, it's a much more important channel out here. Things get done.

I think out here we've got fantastic partners who are very sophisticated, very data-driven. The market in the last 10 years has matured exponentially, and that's what's kept me in the industry is there's always something new. Whether it be influencers, whether it be brand-to-brand partnerships. It's ever-evolving, and there's such a strong community out here as well. I love coming to these events. It's a bit of a school reunion of singing old friends. I had like without me really knowing right, but there was a lot of debates in the past. Everybody said, like, the US is leading in partner marketing then over the last few years that has changed a bit and people said it has fallen a bit behind.

Like this data-driven approach for example much more click-based as well than just purely CPA focused when it comes to the quality of the traffic as well. How would you see the differences between partner marketing in the US and other regions like Europe or Southeast Asia? Yeah, I think multiple teams are involved out here. So it’s not just your affiliate team anymore. Your PR team, your marketing team, your branding team are getting involved with the channel at the end of the day. Affiliate marketing is it's a payment metric right outcome-based marketing. So it's very attractive for brands to invest in the channel. You know, I've worked brand-side as well and I've gone in there and I've met all the different teams. I've educated them about hey, we can automate the streamline partnerships.

You know, I worked with Uber and the finance team were paying out invoices left, right and center. I was like, hey, let's bring this onto a platform. Let's automate it. So, yeah, there's been a lot of adoption within the brands to bring any type of partnership through this channel on an outcome basis. I think, again, the U.S. Is kind of like first to market when it comes to those types of setups. And, you know, Europe follows whatever happens in the U. S. All right. We are here at this conference now. I guess you have seen some of the presentations and followed some of the debates. What would you say are the hot topics just now? Yeah, I think, I mean, influence has been on the agenda for so long.

 

But influencers are getting more sophisticated. Technology is getting better. And brands, you know, that's their buzzword. They love working with influencers because they're very top of funnel, mid-funnel. They bring those new consumers. You know, the Gen Z audience is very influenced by influencers. So, influencers are probably at the top right now. I also see a lot of development with brand-to-brand or B2B affiliate programs, and that's an area that's really growing right now. And then lastly, obviously, Amazon. This is a brand-new opportunity for brands, agencies, and publishers. Everyone's very excited about this because they know how big Amazon is, they know how consumers spend, and now we give brands and partners the ability to really grow that side of their business. The event here is advertised like it's PI Live, an influencer marketing show.

And I had discussed with guests before already if influencer marketing and partner marketing is kind of like growing together. Like now here it's one event basically for both topics and presentations and stuff is a little bit mixed. Would you say that is the case, that influencer marketing and partner marketing is kind of like growing together with the same business model, same technology, just like that you have then creators as publishers basically? or do you see it as two different channels? No, I mean, I remember when I was working brand side years ago, I spent tens of thousands of dollars, fixed fees with influencers because they're getting more savvy and they understand outcome-based partnerships. It's grown exponentially. So influencer marketing really is coming into the fold with affiliates. Agencies are building out influencer offerings.

All the platforms like yourselves are getting Metapick, getting involved with the influencer space. So it's kind of like merged with the affiliate space. So influencer marketing going more performance-based. Correct, yeah, yeah. And they get it now. And brands like it, right? Paying an influence on an outcome basis is so more attractive than churning someone fifty thousand dollars right um so yeah, influence is is very involved with performance-based marketing. I followed some of the discussions yesterday and that was around cashback and coupons which have been seen a little bit critical almost here at the conference where I was really surprised because um this is a bit of an old topic, right? But I think there is so much evidence, proof, case studies about coupons and cashback driving incremental value, driving sales, increasing the shopping basket, bringing recurring sales, sales that otherwise would not have happened.

So I was a bit surprised by this debate coming up just now. What's your view on that? I mean, you can't ignore cashback and coupons; they play a pivotal part in the consumer journey. Also, these partners sit on a lot of data, so they're getting a bit more sophisticated. Like the bigger cashback sites, they can see where consumers are spending, they know their habits. You can't really ignore the sort of savvy consumer that goes, I mean, myself, I get cashback, I get coupons; I know how it works, right? So you can work a lot with these partners, but you need to obviously be strategic. But I think the data-driven approach with these partners is very attractive, right?

I used to do a lot of conquesting where I'd work with New Balance, but then I would target Nike or Adidas based on those consumers and put an offer that was very specific to that user. So that's kind of how people are still working. I'd say that coupon and cashback generally in the US represents about 30 to 50 percent of brand revenue, still again as platforms have got more sophisticated, the data is what's really important, understanding that consumer where they're going, what sites they're clicking on, that's that's really important. Let's see where this debate goes so just like summarizing they're speaking about the US very mature market leading market in partner marketing, a market that scales obviously just through the size it has, very data-driven.

Is that the kind of like definition that you would say is correct? Yeah, definitely. And, you know, a lot of the brands are building out large teams around this because it's becoming ever an important channel. I'd say also agencies are one of the big levers in the US. You know, we've worked with some fantastic uh OPM so outsource partner marketing agencies um there's about four to five hundred in the US uh in my previous role yeah i mean it's it's it's exponentially grown but again because affiliate marketing wasn't that much of an important channel in the past they didn't a lot of brands didn't build a team around that so that's why they turned to subject matter experts like agencies to really scale those types of things and uh whenever you go into some of these numbers right like you always put a zero at the end or something like that it's really impressive right, right when you see the power of this market yeah and also i'd say in the US maybe 30 of the brands are working with agencies, in Europe it's maybe five to ten so it's a very, it's very different market by marketing Yeah, it's a very important part of the ecosystem. It's those agency partners. I mean, I've met dozens at this event, and they love coming here. Speaking about Europe, I would characterize it with three words: diversity, regulation, relationship-driven. Is that kind of like how you perceive the business in Europe as well?

Yeah, totally. Lots of regulation. I think the U. S. is kind of catching up to that at the moment. The U. S. says California is the most strict with regulation. And, yeah, very, very similar, right? The U. K. is the second largest market, followed by Germany. But, you know, we're seeing, I mean, this event alone, every third person has an English accent. So there's a lot of, you know, jumping across the pond, sharing ideas and collaboration. We're getting quite close actually. And then Southeast Asia, I would characterize as emerging tech, mobile-first and a lot of influencer power. Is that as well how you see that? It's a very mobile-first market. A lot of these people didn't start with a PC 10, 15 years ago. They went straight to mobile. Very influencer-focused.

I mean, I've worked in markets like China and Korea and everything is, you know, live stream and very influential. And yeah, how things get done in China and Asia as well is very quick. You know, they work very hard and there's an idea; it gets scaled very, very quickly. I mean, we recently did an event in Shenzhen and that completely opened my eyes. That side of the world and how things are done; uh, there's a hundred thousand Amazon sellers just in Shenzhen right-110, 000 Amazon sellers in Shenzhen alone, I was blown away absolutely! It's literally the cornerstone of Amazon, and yeah, you know every second thing you buy on Amazon comes out this one one city which is insane. Mobile first and influencer power in Southeast Asia.

Does that mean as well that this is mainly a CPC market instead of a CPA market that we have in Europe and in the US? It's changed. I mean, I was in Asia, you know, eight years ago. They didn't know what affiliate marketing was. And my client at the time was Apple. Exactly. I was there at the same time, actually. And it was difficult, right? It was a lot of groundwork that we had to do. So you say that has changed? Yeah, definitely. As affiliate programs have become global. You know, with Apple, we were in 60 different markets, so technologies have become more global, partners have become more global, and expanded agencies have gone into uh new regions as well.

APAC is very much a growth market, but when you see the number of zeros on everything, uh, you want to get out there right, and uh, you know, like I said, I was with Apple; we went into China, we sat down with people, and we're like, 'Okay, how do we do this? This is outcome-based marketing.' And You know, there's a lot of hand-holding, but that market, you know, China, South Korea, Japan, Australia – really is seeing a lot of traction now, and a very exciting place to be working. The challenge back then was mainly the traffic, so the supply side. There were obviously brands that wanted to engage with these markets, starting affiliate programs, but there was basically no real CPA traffic. Has that changed now in these countries like Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.?

Definitely. I mean, I learned a new metric when I was out there. CPD, cost per day. So how do you take over a website for a day? But yeah, because of the adoption of affiliate in that market, it's grown exponentially. Again, a lot of brands are now launching those markets. And it's still in its infancy, but it's definitely growing. And as you know, a lot of brands consider China and those sort of regions very, very important. So they need to make it work. There's a big consumer base over there with a lot of spending power. So yeah, it's definitely an opportunity right now. I remember we did an affiliate event in Singapore and there were hundreds of people there. Wow, this is fantastic.

But if you're not working out there already, you need to be because there's definitely an appetite. What about China? Is that something like us as an international network? We are present globally, but not in China. Is that something that is realistic at all, entering this market as an affiliate network? Or is that still as closed as I perceive it, for example? It's very difficult. It's very, very difficult. I mean, some of the largest brands tried to launch in China and they fail. You need local resources, you need connections. Politically, it's a bit challenging as well. To set up an entity in China, you need to work with a local partner and they have a stake in your business. Yeah, I mean, the market is there, but you need to understand it.

So many brands try to launch in China and fail just because they don't understand the macro sort of economics of the situation. But yeah, it's a great market to work in. For Apple, it was our largest market. And yeah, I mean, like I said, I went there recently. It's so different. Are there any affiliate networks in China themselves, so local ones that are comparable to the traditional ones that we have in America and Europe? Yes and no. It's more sort of sub-network driven. Platform partners like Do My Are out there. But I think there are challenges with that challenges around transparency and maturity of that. So yeah, I'd say there are a few platforms out there. But again, it's very difficult to set up like, you need to have service in China, you need to, you know, the rules are different.

So, you know, I think people have been trying to tackle China, but it's been a bit Bit slow. What a lot of people actually do is set up an entity in Hong Kong or Singapore and sort of run it from there. But going into China is a different ball game. Okay, good. Thank you so much. That's super interesting. I want to go further speaking with you about trends and your view on the future. What are the trends in partner marketing that you're most excited or maybe worried about? What do you think is coming in the coming months and years? Yeah, I think a lot of the platforms are getting a lot more sophisticated when it comes to things like attribution and reporting and ad fraud. Everyone's taking a much more data-driven approach to the affiliate channel.

Years ago, it'd be like, okay, we work with 10 partners that drive 90% of our sales, and that's it. It wasn't sophisticated. But now, because the whole ecosystem has changed, now we're working with influencers, brand-to-brand partnerships. 

Content commerce is huge. Every single content site out there now is involved with affiliate. I met one yesterday and they were like, 'yeah, display business has declined, but affiliate is sort of taking over.' Podcasts, mobile partners, it's ever-evolving. We're expanding a bit, right? Influencer marketing, content to commerce, you just mentioned. It seems like in the past, the affiliate marketing market has maybe shrunk a little bit with programmatic display advertising, etc. Now it seems for me that we're kind of like expanding again, pulling things rather than pushing them out now.

Will you see that as well? Yeah, definitely! I mean, there's new partners every single year and that's what's very exciting. Brands love it because it's outcome-based. And if you're a new business, if you're a new affiliate business, I mean affiliate is a very easy way to get into the industry and quickly work with brands. Right? You join an affiliate network, you get access to thousands of brands, you can scale very quickly, and it's a very seamless relationship and an automated relationship through You know technologies like Trade Doubler. Do you see any tech or any tools that will change the game going forward? Like, obviously thinking about AI or anything similar connected to that? Personally, I haven't seen, I couldn't name any, but definitely AI will serve a part in that, right?

It's ever-evolving and growing. You know, I love a lot of the data-driven partners who have a lot of data-driven tools to help target consumers. And I'd say the platforms are sort of moving in the right direction with that as well. Yeah, okay, cool. I have prepared a few questions, just like I call it a rapid-fire round. Four quick questions. What do you say is the best city to work in? New York, London, Singapore, or Miami? They're all so different. In Singapore, no preference? Yeah, well, Singapore, you can go to Thailand on the weekend. New York is just full of energy. Miami, you've got the tropical heat. I'd say maybe it depends what age I am. Now I'm getting old. I like London. I like being near my family and my friends.

And yeah, New York is great when you're young and you want to get things done and you want to progress with your career. And then Asia is great for just learning about yourself and people and culture. So very different places. Like I said, I recently went to Shenzhen and I'm like, okay, I found somewhere else I want to live. It's a fantastic place. It's difficult to choose one of these, right? It's super exciting. What would you say is the most underrated skill in partnership management? Underrated skill is such a relationship-driven business. You've got to be kind of salesy and you need to be out there talking to people, holding these relationships. I mean, there are people in this industry who I've known for 15 plus years, right?

And I might be working with this person one day. So it's very, very important to build your network. To keep relationships close, and to also help people. Throughout my career, I've taken my friends into new jobs. I've recommended people. It's great. It's such a fantastic community to be in, and I think relationship management is at the forefront of that. I think you just described like our whole way of working or what matters in partner marketing itself. Exactly. That's why we're here. So funny coming even here to Miami. I've never been to this conference in Miami before. And knowing so many people already, right? It's like, it's fantastic, right? Yeah, everyone's very welcoming. You'll see that, right? And we'll all join each other for a drink later and get to know each other better.

But yeah, very relationship-driven. And I love it. What's the favorite campaign you've been part of? In your career, you have worked for Campaign. Campaign, I think. You've worked for so many big companies. Working with Apple was fantastic because Apple was like the shiny carrot, right? Going into China, going into Korea, going to Japan where no one was doing affiliate marketing at the time. But because I had Apple, it opened up so many doors. I remember going to Korea, every third building had the word Samsung on it. So trying to persuade Koreans to invest in Apple was very challenging. Tried to do it myself, but had to hire a local team. But seeing that adoption with Apple and scaling that in the market was fantastic. Very successful campaign.

I learned so much about culture and about people and about consumer behavior when I worked out there. That really matured me as an individual going to Asia and just, you know, walking blind into these new markets that was a really daunting experience but very exciting at the same time, very very good. Thank you so much. Well, is there a piece of advice that you would give to somebody that is starting out now in partnerships? Yeah, I'd say, I mean, I pivoted into this industry; I did a degree in computer programming. But I joined in 2008 when the whole world was crashing. It's a very fun industry. You can pick it up very quickly. I'd say always keep up to date with the trends. I read a lot into this market.

And yeah, it's very welcoming. If you want to get involved with affiliate marketing, you'll start low, but you'll very quickly scale. And like I said earlier, this job has taken me all over the world. It's been a fantastic industry to work with and I'm excited about the future. Perfect. Thank you so much for this talk. If anybody wants to connect with you or learn more about PartnerBoost or yourself, how could they connect in the best way? Find me on LinkedIn. Send me a message. I'm always available. Or you can email me at william. hj@partnerboost. com. Perfect. Thank you so much, Will, for this talk. Likewise. Thank you for being here. And let's have a few more great days and hours here at PR Live in Miami. Yeah, and I'm very excited for you, obviously, setting up the office in the US. And yeah, you're going to have a lot of fun here. Thank you. Yeah, it's an exciting journey. We're really looking forward to that. All right, Matthias. Thank you. Cheers.