[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Hello, Monica. Buenos días. Very nice to have you on the show here.

[Monica Diaz]

Hello, good morning. It's a pleasure for me.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

We actually know each other for a very long time, but we haven't spoken for quite a while. So it's really nice for me to have you here today on the Trade Doubler podcast. Monika, can you maybe start introducing yourself to our listeners?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, my name is Monica Diaz. I've worked at Google for the last 14 years. So that's why, Matias, since I left TradeAbbler, because I worked at TradeAbbler just before joining Google. So 14 years already. Now I am heading the agency and partner team here at Google. And before, I was working at Tradedoubler, and it's very, very nice for me to have this opportunity to actually, in a way, I'm so thankful to my experience in Tradedoubler, but it allowed me to be here at Google.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Very nice. Thank you so much. It's equally a great pleasure to have you here on the call today. Your role at Google is being head of media and tech agencies. Can you share a bit about what this role is like? What do you do?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, I have a portfolio of agencies and partners here in Madrid. I'm based in Madrid for Spain. So my role and the role of my team is make sure that the ecosystem we have is ready to tackle all the challenges that we are facing in the media and tech environment at the moment. So, we are trying to do training for them, to provide the latest product updates, and to have the best offers for their advertisers.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

You have built your career kind of like at the intersection of technology, media, and agencies. That's not really a path that many people would plan from day one when they're thinking about what to do in their career. What was it that has brought you to this world of media and tech?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, actually, I started in media. I started as an industry manager here at Google, just managing the media for then and the results of the campaigns and so on. But since I worked at Tradedoubler, I've always been very interested in the tech as well. And then I had the opportunity to join the Google Marketing Platform team. That is what used to be DoubleClick at the time. And then I realized that media without technology—was not going to be a success. So I wanted to make sure that the technology was there to make sure that the media and the campaigns were running at the best and they could have the best results possible.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Would you describe that as one of these early career moments or turning points that shaped how you would think about the industry? Like when you say that you worked for Trade Doubler, you were thinking about tech and how important tech is. Moving down to double-click, making tech a enabler. Is this these kind of like learnings or these moments in your early career? Is that how what shaped your view on the industry?

[Monica Diaz]

Yes, actually, definitely. And also I was working in a lab that we were doing at Google. And for me, like the product was really appealing for me. I needed to understand how the product was working, how the technology was working, because it's not as easy as it was in the past. Like, okay, I'm going to plan on this media and I'm going to have the results I was looking for my advertiser. It's not like that anymore. You need to have technology because now we have a really complex environment in terms of media. And if you don't have the technology, you won't be able to actually have and run the best campaigns for your advertisers. So at the end of the day, I will say that now you cannot have media without technology. It's kind of a commodity in a way now.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Yeah, very good. That brings us directly into the topic about how the industry transformation is happening at the moment. You could say that the media industry is being rewritten by algorithms, automation, there is AI. There are some people actually that say that agencies are losing relevance. Others, on the contrary, say that they have never been more essential than they are today. And, as you kind of described, if media is now technology and technology is now media, what does that do with the agencies?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, it's a very good question. I think that we are facing a really big transformation in general and in particular for agencies. So what I'm seeing from my role is that the agency is not anymore like a buyer or just a media strategy. They cannot be only that because now with all the challenges that we have in the media and internet space, they have to become like more strategic. They need to be like the strategists that fearare behind all the campaigns. And when you say now with the AI, we see that maybe the agencies are not that relevant. What I see is actually the contrary, because what they can do now is much more important to the resource of the advertiser than ever before. And I mean, if you have a campaign and you have different media, you have a complex environment in terms of media, you need to have AI to actually... orchestrate everything. If you don't have that, you are not going to succeed because you will have to dedicate so many hours, so many times to just running the campaigns. What now we are seeing with AI is that they can actually dedicate more time to think about the strategy, what is best for the client, and then always we need to have a human behind things.To see if what they are doing is accurate or not, because they know better than anyone what the client wants, and that knowledge, they have it. But then, for running the campaigns, they have the AI that is going to help them. For instance, in Google, we have Performance Max that are campaigns that are based on AI. But you need to have what are the key and the KPIs for the client, what is the story of the campaign, what is working, decisionality, everything. And that's something that only an agency can bring at the moment. But also, I will say something that the agency before, when we had like cookies, and everyone were having cookies, it was kind of more. It was easier if you wanted. But now that we don't have that anymore, and that privacy is first, they have become like the data architect. They need to help and actually be like the consultant for their advertisers to have the first-party data working for them and making all the structure around data because we don't have the cookies anymore. We are having less and less because people's privacy is first. So they become very important and relevant in terms of... how can we take the best of the data that our advertisers have, and also it's a very good competitive advantage that they have because it's their own data, and how the agency can be there. in a place where this data is going to work for the campaigns, is going to work for the best results for the clients. So I think it's a transformation in two ways, like in AI. for the campaigns, but also data in terms of data. So for instance, for me, an agency is a partner. So a partner that if they don't succeed, we don't succeed. So the platform is. Just something that is in a joint business plan, I would say. So we have to work together. And for us, they are very important. They are the scale that we need.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

The data point is a very interesting view that I actually didn't see like that, right? So that's very, very important. When you look at AI, I saw a quote recently I really liked. It says that AI makes 90% of your skills kind of like being redundant and 10% of your skills being more and more important. Is that kind of like how you see that with agencies as well as you describe it, that these 90%? This is kind of like automation, running the campaigns, working with the data, while these 10% about what to do with the data and giving strategic advice to the clients is the part that is becoming so much more important.

[Monica Diaz]

Yes, it is totally because the agency, they have all the knowledge. And even if you have AI to run the campaigns. You need to have someone that is overlooking everything that you are doing. And the knowledge is still in the agency and is going to be in the agency. And I think we can dedicate more time to the strategy to think out of the box. and to do more innovative things than ever before, because we will have more time for that is that kind of like what you described.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Now this way of working and this this this complete approach is that what differentiates agencies that thrive, so do very well compared to agencies that might struggle. You see different examples of some that are getting that really good and some that are maybe lacking a little bit behind. You see big differences.

[Monica Diaz]

Well, with the agencies that I work with, I don't see that because they are quite big agencies, to be honest, and they are very, very prepared for that. And I don't see that. I think that if you go to small agencies, probably it's the same with advertisers. Sometimes you don't have the capability to collect the data, to organize the data. The people that you need to do that. But I will say that in my portfolio, I'm lucky that all of them are ready and it's our job as well to make sure that they are ready for the challenges that the advertisers are having more and more. But the small advertisers, it's true that sometimes the data is siloed. They don't have all the data in the same place and they need to do a lot of work that sometimes they don't have the capabilities or the resources to do so.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

But that's very interesting as well, because, like what you say, it's like kind of like it goes across the whole market or the whole landscape. It basically means that there is an advantage of the really big players like you have that on the platform side obviously google apple all the different ais large language models that there is obviously very big companies that own that Then you have very large agencies that have the capability to deal with all that, the amount of data, the strategic concept behind. And then you have big brands that are obviously... have the capabilities to be more advanced to invest more so is that in the end and the game where the big players already have an advantage that the smaller ones are not capable to keep up with you think that is like that I wouldn't say that because the thing is sometimes small advertisers or small agencies, they don't have the need because they don't have the data.

[Monica Diaz]

So it's not, how do you say, coffee for everyone. It depends. You have some needs depending on the size that you have. Imagine that you are a small retailer and you don't have so much data. Maybe you don't need to have that development. It's not needed for you. So I think there is a place for everyone. But when you are talking to players, to brands like, I don't know, L'Oreal. Or big, big brands that are very, very focused on marketing, they have a lot of data, they have a lot of clients, and they need to have this expertise, this knowledge, and this development. But as I said, not all the brands are in the same place. And sometimes you don't need that if you don't have the size for that.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Yeah, well, on the other hand, you could say that, like, this whole technology shift and this acceleration in technology and the availability kind of like democratizes as well, like what someone can do, right? So the entry hurdle is much, much lower than for small players as well. Do you have any example, maybe, of an agency partnership or a transformation that you have seen in an agency that really impressed you?

[Monica Diaz]

In terms of how they use the data or the AI?

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

How they adapt to this changing landscape, working with AI, focusing on the data, focusing on strategy while automating the operational handling of campaigns where you see like... wow, this is an agency, they really got it and or in a certain client brand setup, maybe, where you say that is someone who's really actively driving that change and is adapting it where you say, wow, have you an example like that?

[Monica Diaz]

I have examples, but if I say one of my agencies and not the others, I don't know if they are going to be happy.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Maybe you just don't say the name. Don't say the name.

[Monica Diaz]

Exactly. I don't say the name. But I have to say that I'm lucky that most of them are really advanced. Some of them are focusing on generative AI, for instance, and they are very good. I see examples that are really great. For instance, for a real estate brand, they have been able, one of my partners, they have been able to create videos that are very innovative based on generative AI. And that it's making a difference because you know that the user at the end prefers to see a video that you feel like you are in the house, in the environment of the house. And that was for me like, wow, this is something that it was done without having to make a video. It was done with VO3, with Google. So that was an example that for me was wow. And then also in terms of AI, some of them, they are able to do even bigger advantages than Google. So they are building technology on top of our technology. So they are more even like innovative and they are focusing on. how the algorithm can work even better with the data they have from their partners. And I think they are all advancing in that, to be very, very honest. And they are embracing the AI. I don't see a fear, to be honest, in the agencies that I manage. I think that this is a tool that is very good for them for the efficiency that they can have and also for the advertiser at the end of the day.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

And in the end, like as you put it, like it's not only for their efficiency, it's actually boosting their creativity then as well, right? Being able to do videos like that. Very fascinating. Very good. Now we spoke about agencies, how they change, must change or are changing already. Let us go a little bit more into how the technology and the platforms are driving this change. There is this term like kind of like media tech. What does this term media tech really mean in practice? Is that more about tools that you have in the market or is it more like a mindset shift that agencies need to have?

[Monica Diaz]

It's a very good question. I think it's a little bit of both. And I think that the mindset change happened just a few years ago. It's not new. Now we have like the AI bus. But to be honest, at Google, we have been working with AI since the very beginning in Google Ads. So it's nothing new. And it's true that for a campaign, I'm going to give you an example. So for instance. In a media campaign, if you have, we call it value-based bidding. So for the algorithm to work really well and efficiently for the client, we have the data of the advertiser. We put that data in the algorithm and we are able to be based on the prediction of this is going to be a conversion or it's not going to be a conversion or this client. is a client that is gonna probably cancel after. And we have so many data around that, that the campaign itself is. is running based on the the own data of the advertiser which is amazing and the results are really really really much better than than before so for for me media but based on technology and based on data again And the mindset shift you say has happened already years ago.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

That's really interesting. Sometimes still, like, I don't know if it's a perspective that only we have in digital marketing. Sometimes you think like media agencies are maybe a little bit behind. But then, like what you say, that's absolutely not the case. No, what I see is not the case because they are all using our tech. So it's something that for them is, I said at the beginning, it's kind of a commodity. They wouldn't be running campaigns like bidding manually. It's something that they are not doing for years now. So now we have all the AI Max campaigns where the bidding is going to work. Obviously, someone has to be on top of the campaigns.

[Monica Diaz]

It would be impossible to have such a campaign doing it manually. We have so many media and different publishers now, and different channels. Even if we talk about the full funnel, for example. So something that I see as a big change as well is. The agency, there are agencies on performance, on brand, and so on. But it's true that at the end of the day, if you don't have a full funnel strategy, you are going to lack either the results at the bottom or you are not going to have as many people as you could reach. So now, with connected TV, for instance, which is something new for digital, because before we couldn't work on this kind of media, this is something that the agencies are embracing. And the capabilities that digital is giving to connected TV have nothing to do with linear TV. So this is a transformation as well. They are going through it. And that's something that is amazing. At the moment for me, it's one of the biggest changes that I have seen. Like, how can you reach people on a big screen, just having data and being able to change the ad for each of the users, which is something that we couldn't do before.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Is that maybe a good example for like all the media agencies working with all the big platforms like Google, Matter, Amazon, etc.? How would you think, or maybe that was an example, how do you see these platforms like Google, for example, reshaping how agencies work and how they do their planning, how they do their creativity? So what kind of influence do you think like you or Meta or Amazon have? have on how media agencies work, basically?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, I think that now we are in a moment where measurement is super important because we have less and less data, like I was saying, the cookies and so on. So we are in a model measurement now. And each of the platforms, they are developing their own solutions because at the end of the day, you cannot rely on the data you had before. So now you have to have this algorithm and AI. To be able to demonstrate. And also what we are doing a lot is the experiments to see incrementality, for instance, which is something that we didn't do before. Like when you run this campaign. how incremental how many incremental sales are you are you driving no because before it was easier with cookies and and you can demonstrate it quite easily but now you have to have a model you have to have a measurement model and in in google we have meridian that we launch is an mm marketing media model. And we are working with less data, but we are able to give the results to advertisers so they can plan their campaigns more accurately depending on the results they are having in each of the channels they are planning, they are buying.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

If you now were advising an agency, now they are more advanced, you say, than I was thinking. But if you were advising an agency to be future-proof on their tech stack, what would you tell them to prioritize? Would it be like more focusing? data automation or more like this kind of like creative intelligence?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, I think it depends. It's a difficult question to answer because what agencies are also trying to do is differentiate from the rest. So if you are very good on creative, I would say go that way and try to become the best on that. But for an agency, what is the most important at the moment is to be a consultant, to be able to have a big knowledge of everything, and to be able to accompany the client. In the transformation we are going through at the moment, you need to have data knowledge, obviously. You have to know how to orchestrate the AI. And you need to know also what kind of media is working well or better for your advertisers. So I think they have to have a bigger range of knowledge that they had before. So before it was, this channel was working. this is not working and now they have to have also the data for me data and ai is the most critical point that they have to to tackle so you basically say they need to be strong in everything but should focus on where they have a competitive differentiator already.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

So if they are, for example, known for being maybe a leader in being creative, then this is like what they should continue to emphasize. But they basically need to cover everything because everything hangs so closely together.

[Monica Diaz]

Exactly. Exactly. I couldn't say it better.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

You said it like that. I was just like... If we now step back, now I think it gets really interesting to get more like your global perspective and a bit like connecting the dots. and getting Google's view as well. From your perspective, what separates agencies that truly leverage their technologies from those that are still stuck in more traditional models?

[Monica Diaz]

I think that if you are in traditional model, I would say you have to evolve. This is, I mean, it's like you cannot fight against. what is happening because it's not the future it's the realityand also when it comes to if you want to give the best results to your advertisers i think you need to You need to rely on technology and also be more efficient because we are working around efficiency as well. So I would say that if you don't embrace the change and the transformation, I don't think that you are going to survive in the long term.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

So it's a bit do or die— you basically say. Exactly, yeah. And that's what you tell them as well?

[Monica Diaz]

Yes, but as I said, my agencies, I'm super lucky because they are all embracing this at the moment. This is something that they know that they have to do. Because it's good for them and advertisers. I don't have to convince them, you know? It's like, this is here to help me and it's helping me, it's helping my advertisers. So I really need to evolve the model of... The commercial model that I have, instead of, you know, before they were probably charging a fee for media. Now it's a different thing. Now it's like you are more a consultant. You are more like a strategic partner. And you have to become that for your advertiser.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

I understand. Okay. Now a little bit of a more provocative question. You spoke about that in the beginning, how important it is for you and Google obviously as well to empower agencies and their ecosystem. How would you describe that you do that? You could say in comparison that Google could potentially aim on replacing this ecosystem instead of empowering the agency ecosystem. How would you say the position of you is there?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, actually, my department is agency and partners. So at Google, we really believe that we cannot do it alone. We are a platform. So we don't have the view that an agency can have. In the ecosystem, and we don't pretend to do that. So what we want is to have the best ecosystem, the best agencies and partners, with the best capabilities to really drive the best results for our Google media as well. So this is what we are trying to do on a scale because we are not going to be never in the place of an agency because we don't have the knowledge of other platforms. And obviously, we are not alone. Obviously, an advertiser has to be. Where the user is. And we have many users, but some of them are in other platforms as well. So for an agency, this is something that Google won't be doing.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Okay, interesting. Like Google speaks often about enabling an open and connected ecosystem. Can you describe a little bit more on how you actually then support agencies with using your tools, using your data, for example?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, in our campaigns, we have data, Google data for free. So our advertisers can use it for free. because what we want is to have the best results, as I said. So what we will is doing just putting at service all the technology and solutions that we have. And just because we believe this is what is going to drive results, that's where the agency and us, we have a joint business, and the advertiser needs to be happy with the results. And for that, we bring everything that we can to the table, training. technology, solutions, resources. So we really try to enable this for our ANCs.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Like in consultant and all full scale consultant across tools, data, best practice for agencies about how to run their campaigns in your ecosystem.

[Monica Diaz]

Exactly. So that's why also we do contests. We want to award those that are doing the best cases. the best use of our technology, the best results. And that's something that we really want to empower everyone to have this inspiration, to become better, to do better things, and to be there. So for us, if an agency is winning one of the awards, it means that they are, you know, on the edge. And we want that for every agency that we are working with.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

How do you think this relationship between Google and agencies will evolve in the coming years? How will that change now? Will it change?

[Monica Diaz]

I think that it's already changed because we are a partner. I mean, we are not only a platform that is there for the campaigns, for the media. We are a partner with them. So we have the same objective for our clients and we work towards that. The success of the agency is the success of Google, and I see that relationship like that.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

It will rather probably become even closer, right? Because there is this strong shift to technology. There is this strong shift to use data even more. And then with the help of AI, I can imagine that this relationship of working together is actually getting even closer than before.

[Monica Diaz]

It is really close. I have to say that we are working really close because the advertisers want that as well. You know, at the end, they want to have the best of each of us.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

If we zoom out a little bit, what would you then say is maybe the biggest kind of like white space or maybe an untapped opportunity for agencies working with you? Is there something where you would say that? Google has many more capabilities that are not used to the full extent yet. Like new products, for example, new ways of working, new ways of dealing with data, with AI, obviously. Is there something where you say, hey, there is actually an opportunity that nobody really has fully harvested yet?

[Monica Diaz]

Well, actually, there is. I have to say, today, we launched in Spain an AI mode in search, which is a very big transformation of the way that users were searching before and how Google is actually... adapting to the new way of searching of the users. It was live in the US, and today my colleague just told me that we launched it in Spain, and I think in other countries in Europe as well. So I think there is an opportunity there because it's new for all of us. It's a new thing. is something that we really need to tackle all together. And I think this is the opportunity we have and we have to embrace together.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

That's a bit of an unknown as well, right?

[Monica Diaz]

Exactly.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Like it's affecting us, obviously, as well. We spoke about that the last time we spoke, right? But it's a big change for everybody.

[Monica Diaz]

Yes, it's a big change. And I remember you were telling me, but do we see a decrease in terms of clicks and so on? And it's true that for us, organic clicks are stable year on year. We have 5 trillion of searches every day on the web. And we don't see that this is decreasing. What we are seeing, on the contrary, is that the users are searching differently. And that's why the AI mode is coming to... to help this or to address this kind of change. So the users are making more complex questions. They are more in a conversational mode and we needed to adapt to the new reality. And what we are seeing is that those are having clicks with more quality because they are more interested. And also videos and podcasts like this one, they are getting a lot of attraction from users. So I think it's a question of evolution, as always in the digital landscape. We are adapting to the user at the end of the day. But we are seeing that this is increasing the quality of the clicks and also the quality of the searches that we are receiving.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

So what you basically say is that, despite what you now at the moment often read in different blogs or newspapers, etc., where everybody says that the click outs from Google are decreasing, you say that is actually not the case. And the quality of the click outs, which you can obviously measure, the quality of the clicks out is rather increasing, which would be then good news for everybody that's working with Google. That's good news for somebody like me, right? Working with partner marketing, where many publishers are dependent on the traffic that comes from Google.

[Monica Diaz]

Totally. The only thing is that the kind of publishers is evolving us all the time. I remember that it was. cashback and other things. So there are always different trends and people are going to look for information in different ways. So as I said, for instance, now video is something that they are looking for a lot. podcasts, and I think we need to adapt the content as well for the users. But when you say that there are other third parties that are saying that it's true that there is a decrease in clicks. I have to say that those are not, they are isolated. And sometimes it's when we are launching an experiment and they are giving results before the experiment is actually out of the beta. So what we are seeing, as I said, is organic clicks are... stable year over year and we are increasing the different searches that we are receiving now.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

I listened just recently to another podcast with some kind of SEO guru. And then the question was as well, like, is SEO that? And the funny thing was, like he said, whenever there is a change, then everybody says SEO is that. That's the same like with partner marketing. like for the last 20 years whenever something comes and so partner marketing is that it's just evolving and then what he said which I found very interesting where he said that AI like Obviously, Gemini or OpenAI, ChatGPT, he said this is a new channel and it's not replacing an existing channel. And it helps the whole industry because it increases the amount of interest, obviously. And that search, he said the same, basically, I think he had probably similar sources, that the number of click outs is not decreasing, but rather increasing because of that. And the quality as well.

[Monica Diaz]

And the quality as well.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Very, very interesting.

[Monica Diaz]

There is no other company that could be more interested in the Publisher ecosystem as well, because you know that they are our foundation. So the only thing is that, as you said, we need to evolve. And we have done that so many times. I remember with GDPR, this is dead. Cookie, this is dead. So we are very resilient if you think about it. The digital marketing, we are very resilient because we are all the time changing and evolving. And this is going to be an evolution. Always, we need to be. And here, the opportunity is for the ones that are fast and are able to find that opportunity and to take that opportunity.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Thank you, Monika. I think that was perfect closing words already. It was really fascinating to speak with you. Thank you very much for your insights. Thank you for being my guest on this podcast, Monika.

[Monica Diaz]

Thank you. Thank you, Matthias. It's a pleasure.