[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Partner Marketing Podcast. My guest today is Robin Piet, the co-founder of the European Affiliate Awards. Robin, you are a driving force in the affiliate marketing industry with a passion for bringing much needed recognition to affiliate professionals across Europe. But I want to let you introduce yourself. Very warm welcome, Robin. It's great to have you on the show today.

[Robin Piet]

Thank you, Matthias. Yeah. Yeah, so feeling honored as well to being able to be here on the show today as well. So yeah, my name is Robin. I'm one of the co-founders of the European Affiliate Awards. I've been within the industry since September 2017, got to know the affiliate marketing industry through my first thesis from from high school and yeah, almost never left the industry again. I've worked numerous roles within the industry. Specialists are really operational. I've been a team lead, being able to build a team at an agency while developing our own private partner program. So it was some sort of white label affiliate platform we built for the advertisers within our client portfolio. I've done business development. Well, and currently I think the most exciting part is building, co-founding awards so yeah thank you for the for the warm welcome and uh yeah i mean amazing to be here It's great to have you.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Thank you so much for your time and for speaking with us. You said you are in the industry since 2017. How did you come? Was that by chance? Was that just like, for example, for me, I finished my studies, I did an internship and I kind of like slid into the industry and I never left it afterwards. Was it the same for you or did you know what you're doing at that time?

[Robin Piet]

From high school, but obviously it was my study, but yeah, it was a thesis with an internship at back in the days it was an agency called The Online Company and they were started to discover the possibilities of implementing a white label affiliate platform opposed to using the public available affiliate networks such as Tradedoubler; we were actually using the Tradedoubler White Label back in 2007, PVN solutions. If you know, you know, of course.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, I think so, too, up to date. Yeah, I know if they switched to multiple other networks as well. But yeah, Trade Doubler is still one of the networks they're using. But yeah, the thesis was about if there was any visibility from the market using a white label. And yeah, that's when I think everything snowballed.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

And then you stayed since 2017. Why was that? Why did you always stay in the industry?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, I think. I think it's everything. You know, it's It's tech, it's data, it's a lot of people. I mean, it is a people's industry by the end of the day. But I think the combinations with data, a lot of innovation within the industry. Yeah, it kept me really eager to learn more about it and um yeah and also one very big part of why staying within the industry was the the white label solution back in the days we were offering, and for me, the opportunity to develop the plot the platform and of course generate new clients a new business for that specific proposition we had and um yeah I don't know it just always kept me attracted to it to the industry into the business.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

And once you're in, you don't get out anymore. It's the same for me. You get to know so many people. It's such a relationship-focused business as well. When you really make yourself a position and a profile there, then you keep on hanging. So you developed a real passion for affiliate marketing. Can you describe a little bit why that is and just generally how you feel towards our business, towards the industry? What's your sentiment about it?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, so I think me personally, why I love the industry, of course, a big part of it is, of course, like you already said as well, the people that are within it. Yeah. Everybody is so so every affiliate marketing professional I mean they're very most of them are really passionate about what they do, why they do it, and really try to be the best at it and try to be on top of their game. And I really found that very inspiring because I had the same feeling, right? I was always always curious what was going to be next what was going to be the next big thing and always courage and trying to develop new things as well and Yeah, I think where the market is heading right now or sorry the sentiment Yeah, I mean that's one of the main reasons we also started and created the European Affiliate Awards. It has a pretty negative narrative or pretty negative sentiment within the market. I think it has always had this some sort of And I think it's absolutely unfair that the sentiment is quite negative. Because it's also really negative because of the people that don't really know the industry. Every true industry professional knows what the sentiment is and that it is really positive. But it does get a lot of hate, I think, for nothing, and I don't think it deserves it because, in the end, it's one of the founding fathers of e-

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Let us maybe go a little bit deeper into that. So, affiliate marketing, partner marketing, whenever we speak with any client stands for around like 15 to 20% of the online budgets of a brand, kind of like every brand is doing affiliate marketing worldwide. And we have like massive figures, like the whole global market is expected to be something like 28 billion US dollars next year, I think 2026, which is huge. And then we have these different perceptions, as you just said. On the one hand, it's us being in the industry. We're here and we will probably stay forever. And we love it because it's so relationship-based. The different topics we drive and then there is this relatively low perception from outside. Why do you think that is?

[Robin Piet]

I think one of the main reasons honestly is just due to the lack of knowledge, right? I mean, I don't really think; I don't think. A lot of people don't really know what's possible by affiliate marketing or partnership marketing in broad. I think that's one of the biggest or the core problems that people just don't really know what you're able to achieve through affiliate marketing. And then, of course, the brands that do generate 15 to 20% of revenue or move budgets up to 20% towards the affiliate marketing channel, of course, they know. But there are still a lot of brands that have tried it in the past and just moved away from affiliate marketing because they didn't know what they were doing and that they never changed their perspective on the channel. Yeah, it's a pretty sad thing because, mean, in the end, so looking at the channel as a whole, I mean, in terms of return on investment ROI, I think it's one of the most profitable channels. There are a lot of big brands. Exactly, we beat all the others. Yeah, and I think a lot of brands were really, well, bound to Google, right? And I mean, they moved 50, 60% of their budgets towards Google.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

I mean, why what I think could maybe be a reason as well, what I think could maybe be a reason as well, like all the other channels. You usually have one big player, like for example, for search you have Google, for social media you have Facebook together with Instagram, and for programmatic even you have a few huge players. And this is then obviously driving the perception as well that is maybe giving some credibility. While the affiliate marketing market is much more fragmented, from the outside looks a bit more complicated. You think it can can be linked to that.

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, most definitely. I mean, in the end, if you have no knowledge and you log into a network and you see thousands of publishers that you don't know, of course, I can understand or get into the idea that it can be intimidating. But then on the other hand, if you just try to put yourself out there that you don't have enough knowledge about the industry, about what you're supposed to do, reach out to some network professionals. I'm also 100% sure that everybody is there and willing to help you understand and explain to you what to do. It is intimidating for a lot of people because they don't really know how things work. But that's exactly the beauty done on the other hand, right? Yes, exactly. it is; I think so to come back towards like where affiliate marketing is now and where it's heading. You said 28 billion estimated next year? Yeah, US dollars. Yeah, US dollars, yeah. I do believe at some point that it's still like the tip of the iceberg. Also, seeing what's currently happening in the US with live shopping with the affiliate platform of TikTok. I think it's only; we're just Yeah, I think there's so many more things to come and it can be even more. More big than ever.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

So you are on a mission now to change this perception, right? And for this reason, you have embarked as well on the journey to create the European Affiliate Awards. Can you describe a little bit more to us what it is and what kind of like what brought you to the idea to set up an event or an award ceremony? Can you describe a bit?

[Robin Piet]

How it started was so I think two years ago I left, well it was. once online company but they had some mergers so i left strome it's called the performance marketing ag where i've been for seven eight years as an affiliate specialist And then I left that company and I actually stepped away for a short while from affiliate marketing to a different function. And at the same time, my colleague Jeff also stepped away from Daily Dialogues, which he was one of the founders from, but also part of Candid, which is the parent company that holds both Daily Dialogues and Stroom. And he started at Franke Media. which is the parent company of actions . nl, deals . ba. Pretty big coupon site. Yeah, we just discussed where he went and where I went and we decided to just stay in touch because the industry was new to him. I left it, but well, I was kind of heartbroken because I love the industry. So fast forward, I think a couple months in, he called me and he was like, yo, Robin, can I ask you a question? I said, yeah, of course. He said, why is the sentiment so negative within the industry? Because talking specifically coupons, are in pretty rough water lately or always been but i mean come on it's it's it's it's um it's the regular conversation right talking about coupons um but yeah he he just asked me why isn't it said yeah it has always been like that and i think it was a week later and he said hey what about we just Why not build our own event in Europe? Because of course in the UK you have some wonderful events, PI Live, Hello Partner of course, Matthew Wood. I think these events are amazing and I've attended a lot of times and I always loved them. But in Europe, it's there really isn't a dedicated affiliate marketing event. So that was one reason there isn't really a dedicated affiliate marketing event anymore in Europe. And the second one was really just to change the narrative because then again, when he asked me to join him, I was like, yeah, of course I want to join you because I mean, this is what it's all about, right? Changing the narrative. Giving the industry the love that it deserves, so that was one of the main reasons why we started within this journey and of course it started with an idea. But once pitching the idea towards people within our network, everybody was like, 'Hallelujah', thank you for doing this. And I think everything snowballed. We've been able to work with amazing partners, amazing people. It's great.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

So the first event you will have now in September, right? In Amsterdam. Is that an event that is focused on the Netherlands or is it much more international?

[Robin Piet]

No, the goal will always be to let it be an international event. But for obvious reasons, we chose Amsterdam as our first venue. Of course, Jeff and I both team Dutch with a pretty big network within the Netherlands. We found an amazing venue in Amsterdam that a lot of people do already know. So it was like, okay, let's start with Amsterdam. But no, the goal is to change country. Every year, maybe next year, maybe next year could be Brussels or or Paris, but it's always going to be the goal to to really hop countries within Europe and um yeah.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

With this first event now in September, what's the main thing that you want to achieve, right? So there is, as you said, there is already some events, especially in the UK, there is quite a few. PR Live maybe being the most prominent one and they have awards as well. In the other European countries, there is a little bit somewhere; there is something in Germany, but not to the same extent. Um, affiliate marketing in the industry but but outside our own industry as well, so what what you really want to achieve then um with this first event now in September, what would be a success like, of course, a certain certain number of attendees I assume and quality of the of the of the content and the awards, but like a level higher what is like what do you want to achieve what should be the perception, the like you spoke about the narrative right so what what would you be happy with afterwards.

[Robin Piet]

Well, I think the award show was also a vehicle for us, because in the end of course it's going to be the first event. but the event should be the vehicle for year-round traction within the industry so basically of course the event is going to be action packed with with the awards with some panel session where we try to highlight some of the two days problems within the industry of course networking is a big part of the event as well because we love to get like-minded people together but in the end what we will what we are really trying to achieve with the whole event is to generate a year-round vehicle to really pinpoint the problems within the industry for example the lack of knowledge for a lot of people what is capable and turn it around so so basically if for instance somebody wins the award for best campaign we would love to have them on a later stage during an interview or maybe even during a podcast to explain how they've been able to achieve that specific campaign the and what's needed to build something similar yourself right so and the main goal here is to share the knowledge and yeah put it out there what is possible for people to achieve with affiliate marketing opposed to thinking nah it's just coupons cashback some discount never mind i don't want it because We've been looking into all the cases we've received the past weeks and it was mind-blowing. I mean, the things people come up with, rolled and the success people had with specific campaigns or programs or tech or innovation-it's amazing. So, yeah, I think mangle it should be a vehicle for people to get together but on the long-term solve the main problem within the industry and that's to change the narrative.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Very good. Cool. Yeah, this is because you mentioned that this voucher topic that was already there like 10, 12 years ago or something like that. And now I was at a conference in the United States and then exactly the same topic came up again, like asking about the incrementality of vouchers. Although there is so many case studies and so much proof of concept, how vouchers, cashbacks, loyalty publishers are driving incremental value. But kind of like things turn right and they come again and again-I was really surprised. Can you share a bit more um about the structure of the event itself, like the agenda?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, definitely. So for all the people that are really keen what the exact agenda is. Come to the event, of course! But now within Swapcard, we have the exact agenda. Now once we start, it will be a mix. So, we'll start with the first awards, then a panel session, then there's going to be a lovely dinner. Then again some more awards, and two more panel sessions. And then we'll end the awards and panel categories with a thank you word of course from Chev and I for everybody that attended the event. And then basically, the after party will happen, so that will be for the for the last two to three hours... because in the end, of course, well, everybody who knows affiliate marketing in the industry, he loves a good party!

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Because we like to hang together, yeah. Exactly.

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, I think so. I hope so. But no, so it will be a pretty consistent mix of the awards, the panel sessions, and the ability for people to network, roam around, have a chat with some of our big partners that have been very important to us about building everything and being able to realize this event. So, yeah. Should be plenty to do during the afternoon and the evening.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

So it's really focused on the awards themselves because most of the other events are, they often are like a little bit of a mixture, right? So kind of like conference, kind of like exhibition and then with the awards in the end. So you focus on the awards as being the main subject. Is that what differentiates the European Affiliate Awards a little bit as well compared to the other events that we have in the industry in Europe?

[Robin Piet]

No, I think as weird as it sounds, I think the awards don't get as much showtime for the same reasons. We do not want it to be, actually pretty funny, but we do not want it to be like an endless award show, right? So you get an award, you get an award. So the awards, we try to keep it really short and briefly, but then the panel session will try to dedicate more time towards for also people within the public to ask questions and things. Yeah.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

How many awards do you have? How many categories?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, I think not a lot. So we have seven categories, and of course there's going to be a top three. That's good. So, yeah. And then of course there's going to be the top 50 voices which actually went live today this morning, which has been amazing a lot of traction; LinkedIn is well-packed with our events, so that's amazing to see. But yeah, we have seven main categories that will be awarded during the evening.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Very good, very good. So when you did this concert and then you went out, you spoke with the first people. What was the reaction then when you shared this idea and spoke with people about what you're up to?

[Robin Piet]

It was really good, actually. I mean, obviously we reached out to Redirect Network in the Netherlands to really test Pilot if anybody was interested in an event like this. But everybody was was really positive to everybody I spoke to when we spoke to publishers, professionals, networks, advertisers, and everybody was really positive about this because In the end, so for the people that have went to, for instance, PI Live, they know it's always a great time, right? You get to meet a lot of great people, catch up with people that you don't see really often. But, well, the UK is not accessible for everybody, right? When people heard that it's going to be a great event within the Netherlands. As a first well, first time even um everybody was really uh really uh positive and and um yeah once started um obviously we we for good reasons we needed some partners as well to help us build this um but I mean our partners have been really positive about everything as well and and enthusiastic and really well willing to help so I think that says enough that yeah it was received very positive and very well, yeah.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Now, you got a lot of applications for these awards, right? You already said for these seven categories. How do you select the winners then? I assume you have some kind of jury. But what is like, how do you judge what is good and what should get a prize?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, so for us, what's really important is that of course, we're an independent organization, so the awards are also really independent. Due to that reason, we asked Christian Niemetz, he's the CEO of PAPTEC, to be our head of jury. So basically how it worked is we had a long list with all the submitted cases. Then we narrowed down the long list to a short list based on the classification set by Christian. That got us to a shortlist. The shortlist will be publicly announced by the end of this week, starting the 1st of August. And then the shortlist will be presented to our jury panel. So we have a jury panel of around 20 professionals, international professionals, from different perspectives within the industry. So people that work at a network. 20 is many. It is many, yeah. But for the main reason we have a pretty big jury panel is because, for instance, all the cases within the network category we don't want them to be judged by someone who works at a network. So for that reason, we needed quite a few people for the panel. But yeah, the panel will be the ones to decide what's going to be the top three per category. Besides, of course, the top 50 voices category, which is a public category that works based on votes.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Very good, very interesting. When will the decision be made? Is that just before the event then? Like, who's the winner?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, no, so the no, so of course, who's going to be the winner will be presented during the event night, of course. Um, but we hope to finish um judging the shortlist with the jury panel um by the end of August, so of course, we're gonna know it a bit earlier. But yeah, very excited to see what the jury panel thinks about the shortlist as it currently is, like I said. We had some incredible cases submitted and hats off to some of the people that submitted their case and possibly their win. An award, but then everybody will know, but it's gonna be a tough one for the jury panel, I think, to decide per category because it's yeah, some wonderful work has been submitted, so Great, great.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

You said this is good quality that you received. How many cases have you received in total?

[Robin Piet]

In total, we received, I think, 110 cases. It should be something like that. 110 cases. Yeah, it is. Yeah, so believe me when I say Chef and I had a lot of pinch me moments. Because in the end, of course, it's one of the first editions of the award show. But yeah, like I said, a lot of things snowballed and it's been nothing but great. When people started submitting cases, they just kept coming, and yeah, we were feeling very honored that so many people tried to submit a case. But I think it also really aligns with what we are really trying trying to achieve, because our vision of course is to change the narrative, and we do believe a lot of people believe in this as well, and hence their participation within the event and with the case.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

When you received over 100 cases, good quality cases, where obviously a lot of people have put great effort into that, that's over 100 case studies, that should give you a really good view about what's going on in the industry, about the trends, what's happening, what's new, etc.

[Robin Piet]

Yes, definitely. So I always thought I was pretty keen on trends and I always thought I was pretty keen and big on being innovative but I mean, people really put out some amazing work. So yeah, I had some great insights as well. And yeah, learned a lot of things from the cases as well.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

#Is there anything that you see in all these cases that you think would be worth highlighting, saying, wow, there is a strong trend towards this direction, there is something new coming or something that is really worth sharing?

[Robin Piet]

Well, I think I think something very common of course is artificial intelligence. I think a lot of people are leveraging it based on numerous perspectives. So for instance, of course, automations, but also traffic buying, media planning, stuff like that. So I think there's a very big efficiency layer being implemented with AI. That's one thing. Besides what really stood out for me as well is just the whole tech part so I think there's a lot of well not new upcoming tech publishers or tech partners within the industry, I think they've always been there but some of them are really evolving at a pretty quick pace. And we've seen a lot of cases also based around tracking, conversion tracking, because I think that is, well, it's one of the bigger and main conversations that has been going on for the past year specifically with all the Google updates and stuff. But I think that's um It's nothing more than fair that people talk about it because in the end, so publishers are falling short on revenue. Networks are also falling short on revenue they should receive. And then in the end, advertisers are working with a non-efficient program, which might possibly bleed out and will never be successful again. So, I think tracking is a really important perspective and part of the innovation that we're currently seeing through the tech partners. Um, yeah, content to commerce, live shopping, um, yeah, of course you see a lot of people move more towards full funnel marketing uh, so not really only focused on the last click or the sale but really looking into the whole journey and how people can implement a strategy that works throughout the whole journey with with the commissions with the tracking setup with the content that's available within programs, so um yeah I think I think those are some of the bigger highlights that I've seen, which I could share for now.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Yeah, I understand that you can't share all the details, but just these topics are super, super interesting, right? Getting first cases with AI out and like really something that you can hold on to because many things, many discussions are still very theoretical. Obviously, this tracking topic, which drives everybody crazy, right, I guess. So this is good. And all these new things, because I think we are in a very decisive moment for our industry as well. Everything will change so much with AI and nobody really knows what the outcome will be right, so to see like what is new because we see already where some verticals are struggling on the publisher side but seeing now new ones coming, obviously replacing the traffic that is super interesting to see. Like, when you have all these cases now, you will have a few that will get an award and they will get all the publicity. Do you have any plans to maybe share all of the cases somehow because I think somehow like you could almost write a book about it, i guess right or something like huge industry white paper?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, I mean, quite possibly, of course, there's different reasons why we would not be able to share all the cases. Um, but yeah, I think we most definitely want to create a platform for the people that put their stuff out there and supplement the case as well to explain more about how they achieve things. I think food for thought, but quite possibly that would be something we will try to do. But yeah, you could most definitely write a book about all the cases that have been submitted. And I'm just really curious to see. So some cases we received, they're also just starting to journey, right? So it's a pretty new tech or pretty new AI feature people are using, but it's already successful. I think it's also really interesting to see if people were to submit the case next year, how things have evolved and yeah, how things have changed within the upcoming 12 months or less.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

It is a great, it is so great quality. So if you would be able to publish that somewhere, I think that could be super, super interesting.

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, I mean.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

The awards, the event is on the 15th of September. Yes, it is. In Amsterdam, correct. And then what's your future plan? So you do this now in Amsterdam. You said already that you have a bit of an international ambition. Where do you want to go from there?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, so, we don't know yet which country is next or which venue is next. But you said once a year, right? Yeah, yeah, once a year, so for now it's going to be once a year, but Yeah, so the thing is, so Shef and I are both really enthusiastic about this thing as well, and So for now we've said once a year, but in the end if an opportunity comes or if we come up with something, I mean maybe we go for it because, so, so. Basically, we almost do everything ourselves, which means that we can also build something pretty quick if we want to. Meaning that if we come up with a new idea, it might be earlier than 12 months or next year. But for now, we have a thousand and one things to do before the 15th of September. So we really try to aim to make that one a successful event, which I'm really sure it's going to be because everything looks like it's going to be. But yeah, hopefully next year we'll at least have one event, but who knows, maybe there's more to come as well next year.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

I can imagine organizing an event like that is a hell of a lot of work, right? All this organization, you have the venue, you have the awards, you have the people, you have the marketing, organizing, thinking about 1,000 details. How do you manage to get that done? And how do you manage to cover the costs? Or like in the end, obviously, you want to earn money with it as well, right?

[Robin Piet]

Yeah, so. Our main goal for this year was to just break even, to be quite honest, because in the end, so for us. Of course, in the end, you want to earn money through it, but for us, the first year, the first event, was mainly, the main focus was just make it being successful. So that was our main focus. We've been able to fund most part of the events by our partners and sponsorships we're currently having. We've been able to partner up with some of the biggest names within the industry, which we're feeling very blessed for and still are very grateful for. Um, looking into everything that needs to be done so chef and I, I mean it, it's a Dutch shame but um, yeah, in Dutch we say which means just get it done don't think about it just do it and uh, yeah, we've read I think we both have numerous late nights every week chatting through WhatsApp, calling but just fixing things and getting it done and to be honest, of course, it's a lot of hard work but it's also really a blessing because it's been nothing but fun and positivity. That makes it a bit less harsh.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

And you do that mainly with sponsorships and then I guess ticket sales, right? For the people that come.

[Robin Piet]

Yeah. Ticket sales as well, of course, and case submissions. Yeah. So that's the main business model, of course, the ticket sales and the case submissions. And then of course we have the founding partners which have been the first funding of the event. So, yeah. How much is a ticket? For the people that go so for the people that are listening to the podcast we have a special link with a discounted ticket price which will be 99 euros um which is a 50 euro off discount on the regular price so it will be only 99 euros which includes unlimited drinks, a dinner and of course a lot of fun interesting conversations and well the possibility to take home an award during the evening. So That's a super fair price. It is, yeah. Yeah, it is, it is. I think Well, in all honesty, we've been able to put it at a pretty interesting price point, also due to the partnerships we have. And then again, our main reason for this year was to just make it successful with as many people we could. So the venue we currently have is limited towards a specific amount of people, and we're getting there so, within still a month ahead, it's yeah, it should be amazing, and it should be a really nice evening with Boston.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

I had this discussion with somebody else besides another event where I went to, which was rather expensive. And then this other person said to me, like, 'it's a bit of a pity' because then you, of course, you have some kind of like decision makers going. But then on the other hand, it would be good to attract new people and younger people in the industry. And then they're often not allowed to go, right?

[Robin Piet]

And like really spread it kind of like I think it's a very, very good approach, yes, yeah, it is the main goal, yeah, just to attract as many people as we can, and well the venue allows of course.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

It will be great, I'm sure. Thank you so much for sharing all that, Robin. I'm really looking forward to it. At the end now, as with every podcast, I have three questions that I ask all of my guests. Are you ready for that? It's a little bit more personal than what we just discussed before. Yeah, sure. Yeah, definitely. What is the best book? We're looking for recommendations. What is the best book you've ever read? Ummm.... Or maybe recently read, not maybe ever.

[Robin Piet]

No, I read this a while ago, but I think for me, yeah, it is The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg. So the book really explains how habits are built within a human brain and also how you can move away from habits. I personally learned a lot from that because Obviously, the human brain has been programmed for 25 or 30 years currently. So for 30 years, I've been doing something similar. It's really deeply programmed within my mind. But then if you want to step away or move away from certain habits, it can be quite tricky. And through reading that book, it learned me a lot about how you can break habits, how long it takes to change a habit and break a habit and stuff like that. So for the people that are having a hard time, changing habits, it's Yeah, I definitely recommend it. What is the name?

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

The power of habits. Very good. Very interesting. Thank you. And do you have any app or any tool that you would say you can't live without, like coming back to habits now? What are you using every day?

[Robin Piet]

Well, of course I can say ChatGPT like everybody does. But so. This is a funny one actually. So I love having plants within my house, my home. I'm not that good at taking care of them, so I currently have an app which is called Planta, which reminds me when to water them, to take pictures of them, and to see if they're healthy. And I think my room plants are happier than ever. So for everybody that wants healthy room plants, I can definitely recommend it. It's a good one actually. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, it has a widget on the iPhone as well and it just gives you a pop-up and a checklist if you've watered all the plants and stuff. It's a funny one, but it's a really good one, so definitely recommend that as well.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

I had one, like I don't have it anymore because it was kind of like 100 euros per year. No, not so much, 70 maybe. Where you could like take pictures to recognize different plants, right? And then you run around and you look completely differently. Oh, what is that, right? Yeah, that's a good one. That's a funny one. Yeah, definitely. And then if you wouldn't have embarked on this journey to set up the European Affiliate Awards, if you would be free. What would you be doing? Like no limits.

[Robin Piet]

No limits, so. Formula One driver. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Yeah, I don’t know. It can be anything with an engine though. I mean, I love boats as well. Or jet skis or cars or motorcycles. I don't know anything that goes fast and can potentially kill you, something I like.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Cool. Thank you so much for sharing. Thank you for the whole talk about the European Affiliate Awards. That was super interesting. Thank you for the insights. I'm really looking forward to the show. And I hope that we could send a little bit of the vibe that you have across. Bring that across. Thank you so much for the talk, Robin.

[Robin Piet]

Thank you so much as well, Matthias. It was a blessing. Thank you. See you in September.

[Matthias Stadelmeyer]

Exactly. Thank you. Bye bye.

[Robin Piet]

Bye.