[ 00:00:00 ]Hello everybody, warm welcome to the Partner Marketing Podcast. In today's episode, I will be speaking with Helen Southgate from Acceleration Partners. Helen is looking back at experience of over 20 years in partner marketing, so it will be super interesting for us to speak about Helen's experience, take some learnings and then obviously get her view on partner marketing. Hello Helen, very warm welcome to the Partner Marketing Podcast. Hello, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to talk to you today. Thank you to be here today. Maybe as a start, do you want to introduce yourself briefly? Yes, sure. So I'm Chief Strategy Officer at Acceleration Partners. We're a partner marketing agency. We work all across the world.

[ 00:00:48 ] And what we really want to do is help brands, particularly sort of big, global, complex brands, create excellent partner marketing strategies that's you know really our DNA and what we do; and as you said I've been working in affiliate marketing for a long time, so yeah, nearly 20-23 years, I think it'll be this year, so have a have a lot of experience that hopefully I can share and and help interest some of your listeners. That would be very, very interesting for us. Maybe should we start right away with Acceleration Partners? Acceleration Partners is a global agency. Is it okay if I call it agency? Yeah. And to my knowledge in the area and the way you're working, maybe even the only global partner marketing agency out there. Is that right?

[ 00:01:43 ] And can you describe a little bit on how you do? What do you do exactly? Yeah, so I would say yes, we're probably the only partner marketing agency that's truly global and I guess when I mean truly global, I say like we do. We have people on the ground in most regions and countries, so we have North America, South America, UK, Europe, and APAC as well, and we have people across, I think it's like 12 different countries. Um, we're very lucky, I think that we work remotely. So we're 100% remote working company. We always have been. Everybody's working remotely. Yeah, even before COVID. Like that's just always been the way we've worked. You have offices or you have no offices at all? No offices. No offices. Yeah, we're complete.

[ 00:02:34 ] There's nearly, I think it's around 350 people now working at Acceleration Partners. All remote. But I guess the huge advantage of that for a global company is we can have people where we need to have people. And I mean, you know, because you've been in this industry a long time as well, like so much of our industry is around relationships and people and having in-person meetings. And it just makes a huge difference if you've got people on the ground. So I think that is really our unique proposition. I've been at Acceleration Partners for eight years now. It wasn't easy to do that or build a global company, as you can imagine. But I think it's been really beneficial for our clients. I think just for the whole company as well.

[ 00:03:22 ] It's great to work at a global company. So, yeah, I think we are the only partner marketing agency that just does partner marketing and is global. And I think. What we're really good at, I think, is being able to work with those global multi-market multi-product complex clients that need an agency to help them navigate different countries, different affiliate programs, potentially different platforms, different types of partners, different market maturity, all those things. I think is really where our sweet spot is and and that's where we really excel. So the brands work with different networks, work with different platforms, affiliate networks like Avon, Trade Doubler, for example, platforms like Impact, Partnerize maybe. And you work with them shaping their strategy, setting targets, helping to reach these targets, seeing that you deliver a strategy, activities across all these different countries in a kind of like consistent way.

[ 00:04:32 ] Is that how I can understand? That yeah, and I think the key thing is, you know, as an agency, I think the difference between sort of an agency and, you know, maybe network or in-house is you know advertisers really employers because they want an extension of their team. But they want their expertise and they want the market expertise as well, so they want the expertise in partner marketing and they want the expertise in individual markets. So I think that's what we're really good at, like taking a global strategy because generally, like the strategy is the same for partner marketing; like the fundamentals are the same, but the way it's executed in each market can be very different depending on market conditions, market maturity, the product, language, culture, all those things.

[ 00:05:19 ] Um, so we really take a global strategy and execute it locally which, um, I think works really well for many of our clients, um, and you know sometimes like say they're on different platforms around the world and we can kind of bring all that to So they have one view of everything that's going on on their affiliate programs and partner marketing programs. Can you can you maybe share a few examples of brands that you’re working with and what the challenges are so that we can imagine that we can picture it in a better way? Yeah. I always have to be careful with naming brands. You know what it's like these days. Or you say brand A or you say a travel client, for example.

[ 00:06:01 ] I think there is some key industries like travel, fashion, maybe retail, electronics, something like that. Yeah, I think a really good example is one of our sort of retail clients. They’re a high street jewellery retailer. You would know them, everybody would know them. They are in, I think we work with them in 30 markets, maybe even more so now around the world. Um, and look, their affiliate strategy or their partner marketing strategy is the same, you know it's to drive incremental revenue and sales and new customers through different types of partners and diversify the partnerships. Obviously that's very different depending what market you go in, like US and UK is very different to Korea or to Germany or to Spain.

[ 00:06:53 ] Um, so being able to take that sort of fundamental strategy but execute it very locally is, you know, I think what brands need an agency to do and that's what we we do really well um, and of course like brand awareness. Is different in different countries; their pricing is different, sometimes even their products are different. Like, culturally, some of their products are very different in in different markets as well. So, having people from acceleration partners from the agency on the ground that really understand that market and can execute that strategy for the client is, is really key um and I think like I said that's kind of where our sweet spot is; I think that's where we're really good as an agency and where we add a lot of value.

[ 00:07:37 ] Maybe I can jump in there directly because that's super interesting for me. In Europe, we know the differences obviously between the different markets. There is some localization. There is in some countries maybe different currencies. There is a different traffic mix or focus or behavior, consumer behavior as well. But then in essence, I think many things are relatively similar still, although I strongly believe that you need people in each and every market to really understand and really drive the business. But when I think now about a global company, we as Trade Doubler as well, we have some clients in America, in Asia as well. The markets there are really, really different, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah, really different. And it's particularly the US and Europe I find really interesting. And maybe even like UK.

[ 00:08:37 ] You'd always think that the US and UK in particular would be quite similar, but really not. There's so many differences. Like we speak the same language, but in a very different way sometimes as well. Like some of the nuances of how we speak and how we sort of talk to. Customers or talk to publishers are very different and also the size right like the size of the US, it's just it's such a huge market and it's you know there's so much opportunity there whereas the UK and I think Germany is very similar right, much much more sort of tighter market everybody knows everyone, you know, fewer publishers to work with but lots of bigger publishers, like the US, is just fast and being able to sort of understand that and navigate that, I think is really important.

[ 00:09:26 ] And then when you go into other markets, you know, I think particularly in Asia, like China and Korea and Japan are really interesting, you know, completely different way that consumers buy, like it's much more around social media. Like chat apps, lots of people buy more from chats and like you have to think the whole traffic mix is completely different, yeah, completely different. Which I find, like I find fascinating, but also that's why you need people there to be able to really understand those different ways of marketing, um, which I think is really important. Originally, acceleration partners is coming from the US, right? Yeah. So I guess obviously the US market is a bit more like of a home run almost, I would want to say.

[ 00:10:17 ] But then going to all these markets, how have you managed to build the expertise that you are really able to run global programs or maybe not global programs, but a global setup with local programs, local activities, which I think is probably the key, right? That you have it. Globally, to some extent, but then taking care of all the local eventualities and specialities that you have in these different markets. How have you managed to set that up? Yeah, so the way we're structured, I guess, is everything is centralized. So a client services team, for example, I think, you know, that's the biggest part of our agency, as you can imagine, so the people that work with our clients. It's one client services team. But then we obviously have people in the US, UK, Europe, APAC or wherever.

[ 00:11:07 ] So everyone has like that kind of belonging to a company and one vision, which I think is really important. Or, if they're working on a program, they'll have that sort of one vision and one strategy. But then, they are then working to execute that locally. And the way we sort of built that really is so. When I started, what, nearly eight years ago this summer, that's when we launched Acceleration Partners; that's when we launched a UK business. So, we launched a UK business first and recruited really good client services people that understood partner marketing from the UK. Then, we expanded to Germany. Then, we expanded to APAC. And, we sort of built the team and expertise like that. So getting really good.

[ 00:11:53 ] People in the local markets that understand client services and partner marketing is how we've built that out, but still with like a centralized philosophy of you know how to run exceptional affiliate programs and understand best practices um so it's really centralized, but executing locally is the way we've we've done it and it seems to work well so far. That's key, especially as our industry overall is relatively small. If you compare it to other just like mainstream industries, right, that everybody knows, this expertise, building this expertise and this know-how, that is fundamental. Yeah. I can imagine. Well done. Now, as partner marketing agency, you obviously work with different networks, different technologies, platforms. And you yourself, you have worked on network side. How is that working with different networks?

[ 00:12:51 ] And how would you maybe, very interesting, I think, for our listeners and for me as well, where do you see differences between the different networks? Yeah, so we work with, I think, almost every single network or platform that exists. Which is a lot, I think it's I think globally we may work with over 40 platforms; it's something like that so it's a lot. And look, that's always been really important to us that we are platform agnostic because we feel it's important that the client chooses which platform they're on because you know I think every platform has different strengths and weaknesses and they may suit different verticals, different clients, different regions, different markets. So we've always found that really important. And I think, you know, it's funny because the fundamentals of a network are very similar, right?

[ 00:13:51 ] To track sales, to report on sales, to pay affiliates. That's our core, yes. Yeah, that's the core of the business. You know, everyone does that similarly, not always exactly the same, but similar way. But I think the differences come where there's sort of specialism in different verticals, like travel, for example. You know, there's certain things that travel clients need from a platform that might be different to a retail client or to a finance client, et cetera. So that's where I think some of the specialism of some of the networks comes in. And then, obviously, I think the regional or the sort of market, experience of a platform is really really important because you know some some platforms work globally, some don't, some are better known in some markets and others, and you know understanding the complexity of that for clients is really important as well.

[ 00:14:52 ] Um, so yeah, I mean the way workers we are agnostic, we allow the client to make the choice of the platform they want to work with, but we, you know, potentially advise which is the right way to go as well where we felt it was necessary. I can imagine that it becomes a bit complex as well when you work with a global brand and they might use different networks, different platforms in different countries because there might be some that are very strong in the US or in Japan, but you have somebody else in Europe. Do you have any own technology or how do you work by for consolidating that because when you work with the client, they obviously I guess, still, I expect some kind of seamless work across all these markets.

[ 00:15:34 ] But I can imagine that's a bit of a challenge, right? When you have all these different sources and platforms. Yeah. So we created several years ago now our own sort of proprietary internal technology. We call it AP Vision. And it does a few things. The first thing we really wanted to do is exactly what you said, be able to take data from the different networks and have one report, one view of what's going on on the affiliate program, because that was really important, and to be able to put it all in the same format and report back to our clients. So it's able to digest data from all different platforms, networks, everything, and put it into one format, which is really good.

[ 00:16:18 ] But then the sort of additional benefit of that and what we've developed over the last couple of years is that means we have loads of incredibly valuable data in one place across all of our clients, you know, 200 plus clients globally in all different verticals. That is really valuable for our clients to look at, like benchmarking and forecasting and trends and why things are happening, how well. publishers are performing if there's new publishers or popping up on this program like can we get them onto other programs so that has enabled us to be a lot smarter as well about how we work with our clients and I think be able to give them the sort of added value of insights across our whole client base and globally which you know I think is incredibly valuable I mean I'm sure you you feel it a lot of trade doubler too I think clients have become more more demanding but in a nice way about what they want to see much more much more experience I think like I'm here for 17 years as well when you think about how we work together Like 17, 15 years ago and how that is today, it's a completely different world, right? So it's absolutely on eye level and very, very advanced conversations. Very professional now as well. Yeah. And advertisers want to understand better why things are happening and you know what their competitors are doing and I think more so as well which I really love because I think this sort of really how I think about the world how how they can be better like what are they missing out on and how they can be better and I think having all of that data is a really valuable thing for us to be able to give our clients.

[ 00:18:04 ] You are Chief Strategy Officer at Acceleration Partners. This strategy part, does that mean strategy internally as a Chief Strategy Officer for Acceleration Partners? Or is it the strategy to its clients? So shaping their partner marketing strategies? Yes, very focused on client strategy. So I manage our group of account directors. So our account directors are sort of most senior. client contacts but they are the they are the people that understand the client best so like the client handler i think is a good sort of way to put it they are in the business they understand the business they understand the goals they understand the challenges where the client's trying to get to so they really own that entire relationship um and they're therefore responsible for the strategic direction of where we're going so their their sort of responsibility is right this is a north star that we need to get to and work with a delivery team on how to get there and so I work really closely with that group of account directors and sort of dig into clients and strategy and thinking about where they are now and where we want to get them to because really a lot of the work we do and look from an from an agency point of view I think it's adding value but I feel very strongly it's also from a point of view to show how much value the affiliate channel can add and the partner marketing channel can Add to show all the great things that we can be doing, and how we can add incremental revenue so that's really my job to make sure that we are growing our client's business, which I think is the most important thing um and delivering exceptional partner marketing strategies, you know we have a we have a very high bar, I think you have to as an agency, you're kind of the extra cog in the wheel so you have to be delivering at a very high bar um and it's my job to make sure we're doing that for all of our clients. With all the expertise that you have working with so many global brands in partner marketing in different countries. in different setups different industries is there something is there one theme or is there something that that happens again and again where you would give a special recommendation to brands where you would say there is something that comes up again and again and this is that I really would want to get across to every brand that is working with us or is working in partner marketing yeah I think it's really around understanding data but I particularly around sort of customer journeys and attribution I just think look it's been a topic for years and years but i still think it's such an important topic to understand because You know, partner marketing is so diverse and it's a huge scale there's so many different partners and different types of partners and they attract consumers in very different ways like understanding the whole customer journey and the value that all of these partners add I think is so important I think it's becoming it's becoming more and more important I think particularly in the sort of world we're in today you know where clients you know they need to see more from their marketing spend and they need to know exactly what every dollar euro pound being spent what it's delivering um so that I think is honestly The most important part of what we do at the moment is understanding the data and making good decisions from that data on where to spend marketing budget most effectively.

[ 00:21:52 ] And that sort of comes up all the time. It's not always easy to do for lots of reasons, but I think it's the most important part of what we do at the moment. Do you often have the topic speaking, discussing between? Marketing and sales because obviously we call it partner marketing, yeah, but on the other hand, like from my view as well, I think it's rather a sales channel actually so we deliver sales, we deliver conversions, and then order value. Do you work with most of your clients accordingly that they see themselves as a sales channel? Or do you rather have marketing and marketing budget discussions? How is that? Yeah, it differs a lot from client to client.

[ 00:22:41 ] I would say over the past few years, I think there's been more of a focus sort of beyond sales to marketing and brand than there has been before. However, that is with the caveat that, like you say, I think the partner marketing channel is a sales channel, right? That's what it's really good at. The partners we work with are really good at finding customers and converting them. That's why it works well and the model works well. But I have found with a lot of clients that there's more interest to spend more, what I would call, sort of marketing higher funnel budget in the affiliate channel. Because I think they can see the value in it. I think one of the challenges we sort of have as a channel as well is our return on investment is so good.

[ 00:23:34 ] It's always one of the best of all the marketing channels because it is a sales channel and it tends to convert sales really well. I still think we sometimes can have better discussions about how being a bit more flexible on that. And having a return on investment that's perhaps nearer to other channels, you can sort of broaden how they're spending their marketing budget in affiliate channels as well. And I think that's an important discussion to have with brands. And I'm seeing that more and more as well. We have these discussions as well, as you just mentioned, comparing partner marketing with other digital channels, like search, for example, and all these calculations that come with it, because it's quite challenging, right, to compare the different channels.

[ 00:24:29 ] And, as well, how they are calculated, so the return on the advertising spend, conversion rates or something like that, difficult to compare search with partner marketing for example. So you have discussions there as well about budget allocation in the first place, but then attribution of sales later on as well, yeah, yeah. And these are all discussions that we have and, like, it comes back to so I was saying before how important the data is and having all of that data. And it's also like, you know, I love this channel, I've worked in it for 23 years, but it can be quite complex to explain to a lot of brands because there is so much happening in that affiliate ecosystem. You know, there's affiliates that work in search, they behave in a very similar way, there's affiliates that are influencers.

[ 00:25:19 ] And they sort of behave in that way, and their return on investment is different; there's content partners, price comparison, email, and all these things. It's like a sort of microcosm of all of marketing, and I think sometimes to try and explain that and be able to compare that to those channels internally is is quite challenging, um, but I think like these are all really good conversations to be having. You know if we're having these conversations with clients I always think that's a good thing, you know. We're looking at the data, we're looking at what's happening, we're working as a team with them and their other marketing. Channels to figure out the best way to spend their marketing budget and I think that's the most important part of it, um, but I think sometimes it can be a little bit complex to explain what exactly is happening in the affiliate ecosystem That's a good moment.

[ 00:26:10 ] Thank you so much for all these insights and these learnings. Maybe it's a good moment to go one level higher speaking about partner marketing in general. You are not only Chief Strategy Officer at Acceleration Partners, but you're actively involved as well in the affiliate organization. Affiliate and Partner Marketing Association in the UK, the APMA, you're on the chair of the government's board so you have a very broad view not only directly through your business but through peers as well and the industry as a whole so what's your view on partner marketing what is the state of the nation There was this report just recently published by the APMA that showed impressive figures. It gave a lot of insights into how the industry is shaped at the moment, how we work.

[ 00:27:07 ] It shows a few areas as well where we can put more effort into or give more attention to. So what's your view? How partner marketing is today, yeah, I think I think it's in a really great place. Um, you know those those numbers that came out of the APMA and it was UK only but I still think they're very positive and I think we've seen numbers come out of Germany in the US very similar like it is a growing industry still which is incredible considering it's been you know going for 25 plus years. It seems to always reinvent itself and grow year on year, so I think I think it's in a very good place. I think the the reason that the APMA started, so it started um, I think it was October-ish last year or summer last year, was because there was a sort of feeling in the UK industry that we'd lost some of that collaboration as an industry like it become very fragmented.

[ 00:28:11 ] um and because of that, I think it was felt that we'd lost our positioning outside of affiliate marketing if that makes sense and I think this is still our biggest challenge like how do we position ourselves as a reputable channel um a channel that you know should be getting more marketing budget a channel that should be in all the you know big CMO conversations um and I think you know you can't really do that individually it needs to be a collaboration between lots of people in the industry so that's one of the reasons that it sort of came about and another reason which i think is really important is you know to continue to Drive best practices and standards in the industry, and I think we've always been really good at that in our industry globally.

[ 00:29:06 ] You know, I think we sometimes get a bit of a hard time about it because our industry is complex, but we've always been very careful to make sure we do the right things by you know all the stakeholders in the industry, which includes customers, partners, networks, agencies, everyone, and do it to a standard that is very high. Um, but I think it's important that we show that outside of this industry as well to show that we are continuing to improve and continuing to think about best practices and standards. As well, so the APMA has a big role to play there as well, which I think is going to be really key going forward. Now in this report, it was reported 17% growth for partner marketing year on year in the UK.

[ 00:29:57 ] I think in other markets in Europe, in the US as well; I don't know so much about Asia, but it's basically the same, I would say. So it's very, very healthy figures. This is clearly above market level, right? When you compare figures on ad spend, when you compare Google figures or e-commerce growth figures. What is your view on what is driving this growth? I think it's a few things, but I think it ultimately comes down to the high return on investment of this channel. If you think about other channels, paid search, social, Facebook, all of those, their return on investment is actually declining because the costs are going up quite significantly. And I think advertisers, particularly over the past couple of years, have really felt that.

[ 00:30:53 ] They felt the increase in their ad spend and the sort of lowering their return on investment. And I think because of that, they've been, more open to looking at what else they can do in the partner marketing channel, because it's a great return on investment; there's so many opportunities. I think that's been a big part of it. I think the other really interesting area is, I think there's been a conversion of other channels within partner marketing-influencer is converging into partner marketing, performance PR is converging into partner marketing, retail media, other platforms like TikTok Shop; they're all sort of moving towards this sort of performance marketing world, which I think is great. And that's what we're really good at-we know how to measure sales, we know how to convert sales, we know how to work with lots of different partnerships in different ways.

[ 00:31:50 ] And I think we're starting to see more budget. being spent because of some of those convergences as well which i think is really positive for the channel so basically two things the one is the return on advertising spend so the cost per acquisition we discuss that with clients as well we make our own calculations um we kind of like always come uh to the conclusion that partner marketing is the cheapest channel for client acquisition um for our clients you would see that as well yeah and the only reason i'm sort of smiling at myself a little bit is because i think that can be a good and a bad thing i think like it's a good thing because you know it is a really high return on Investment, I think the challenge is we can sort of put ourselves in a little bit of a whole because of that, and I think it can sometimes limit what we can do.

[ 00:32:46 ] Um, I think it's important that yes, it is a high return on investment, low CPA channel, but also that it shouldn't just be seen as that. Like you can do so much more. And I think there is a, there's a little bit of a danger that we sort of put ourselves in that bucket. And, you know, I'm sure you've been in these conversations as I have. Sometimes it's really frustrating when you see other channels with a much lower return on investment and a much higher CPA. And I'm like, why, why are you putting the. Money there like you could do a much better job if you did it here, but I think we have to be a little bit careful we don't sort of put ourselves too much in that low C.

[ 00:33:24 ] P. A bucket. We have this um so we have this financial advantage on the other hand what you mentioned as well is the diversity and the diversity of the traffic and the innovation that we have in the different networks with new publisher models coming up and then you have with these publishers you always have these entrepreneurs working for you as a brand as well which I would say is the second driver of the growth and the health of partner marketing, yeah yeah definitely and I think that's always been why I love working in this industry because there's always something new and people reinvent themselves very quickly. And, you know, they're always finding ways to do things differently. Like you say, it's got that entrepreneurial spirit, which I've always really enjoyed.

[ 00:34:16 ] Yeah, that's what I love as well. You mentioned influencer marketing and you said influencer marketing becoming part of partner marketing. Is that really the case? Because influencer marketing is growing very heavily, and in some areas you could say it's establishing itself as an own channel or an own discipline. On the other hand, the fundamentals, the tracking, the payments, the partner model is exactly the same as we know in partner marketing as well. How do you see that? Because in some areas you see a strong connection, like for example, upcoming PI Live in Miami. You have an influencer show at the same time. On the other hand, it's very distinct from each other and it's kept very separate in other areas. So what is your view on that?

[ 00:35:10 ] Yeah, this has been really interesting for us over the last couple of years because we actually acquired an influencer agency in the US a couple of years ago or nearly a couple of years ago. What is the name of that? Well, they're now sort of integrated into everything that we do. So it's kind of part of our services. So we offer affiliate and influencer services as well. But originally they were called IR Vault. That was the original agency name, but now they're sort of reversed. But I think what I've sort of learned, because I've learned a lot about influencer for the past couple of years, is there's different types of influencers. You've got like your sort of really big, influencers, you know, that have millions of followers, and you know they have they have a much closer relationship with brands, you know.

[ 00:36:01 ] I think that that is something different that's slightly separate, and I think that's how a lot of people sort of view traditional influencer like they're bigger influencers, but because it's become so much easier to become an influencer so many different platforms, whether that's Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, whatever, there's now hundreds and thousands, millions of different influencers um of all different sizes, and there's no way that a brand can work with them and manage them, and that's why I think there's there's such similarities with you know sort of traditional affiliate marketing. Because it's about working with lots of different partners at scale, being able to manage them at scale, being able to track them, be able to pay them, be able to manage brand safety and compliance, and all those things that we've always done in partner marketing um and I think we're in this sort of sweet spot, I think where we're able to do that on behalf of brands because we know how to do it.

[ 00:37:03 ] I think that the differences are and there are some quite stark differences as well is that you're working with individuals when you work with influencers not companies and that is a very that is a very different way of working so we actually We still have a separate influencer team even though you know we've we've sort of centralized a lot of what we do. The actual team that works with influencers is separate because it's completely different-like it's totally different relationship, and how you work with them, and how you contact them, and even how you talk to them, and how you deal with them. So that bit is very different. We even separate between Instagram influencers and TikTok influencers, for example, right? Because even they're very different. Yeah, they work very differently.

[ 00:37:49 ] So that bit is, that bit I think is where you do need different experience and different skills and, you know, being able to. understand that creator and what they need and whether they're the right fit for the brand, like I think that's really important to do that-a scale is challenging, you need a lot of people to be able to do that because it is it is a quite a one-to-one relationship and so I think that's where it's it's slightly different but otherwise it's very very similar and I think that's why it's converging into our world and then obviously you have people like LTK who you know have been working in the affiliate space for several years now and are sort of probably you know big partners on a lot of affiliate programs as well so they they've sort of found the affiliate channel as a really good place to work and scale their business as well, so it's all converging but I would say it's like it's that sort of mid to long tail of influencer, it's not the It's not the big influences. I think that is something quite separate. It goes much more into branding then as well, right? Yeah, exactly. And it's, you know, really managing a relationship or probably managing for an agent as well. Like it's just a totally different world. Exactly. Yeah. What do you now, as a conclusion on partner marketing, what do you see being the main topics now going forward and the main trends that will keep us busy in the future?

[ 00:39:22 ] Yeah, we're always busy in partner marketing, aren't we? I think, as we said, I think the convergence of some other channels is interesting. Um, but I think affiliate like partner marketing has always been like that. We've always been a bit of an incubator for different channels which I think is great. I think the other sort of two areas which I think we'll continue to see focus on is, you know, a lot a lot of our business is still in you know coupon voucher cashback like it it just has been and always will be, but I think there's much more focus now on how to use those types of partners more effectively, how to make sure you're driving incremental sales, you know, not blanket codes not blanket cash back thinking a bit more strategically about getting the consumer to buy certain products or do things in a certain way.

[ 00:40:13 ] I think like thinking more strategically about how we work with those partners is really important because I think we are well I hope we are beyond the do they add value or not. I think we've sort of answered that, but it's now how do they add more value. I think that's really really key um so I think we'll continue to see a lot more sort of strategic thinking. There and I think the partners are thinking in that way as well, I think they've sort of, you know, really elevated how they think about how they work with brands, as well. And then I think that the other area is really around content, still brands really want to see people talking about their brand in a positive way, and I think, you know, there's some relevance to influencers there as well, but I think growing content partners and increasing revenue through content sites is key, but that comes back to what I sort of mentioned earlier in our discussion around data.

[ 00:41:16 ] You've got to show the value of that and how it affects the customer journey and how it's driving sales probably later down the funnel. And I think there's going to be more and more focus on how we measure that, how we measure it effectively, how we pay those partners, how we pay other partners in the mix. I think that is going to be a key focus going forward. Thank you so much, Helen. That is very insightful, very interesting. Thank you for sharing. At the end now, I have three questions for you that I ask all my guests. I hope it's okay that I do the same now. Could you share with us the best book you read as a recommendation for us? Yes, lots.

[ 00:42:01 ] I think the book that's resonated with me most recently, it's a book called The Scout Mindset by a woman called Julia Galef. It's really about having curiosity, an open mind, looking for the truth rather than defending your beliefs. And I think, look, in our world today where there's lots of fake news and you're never quite sure what's real and what's not, I think that's a really good mindset to have. And one of the things she says in the book, which I speak a lot to my team about, is, You know, you can have a lot of subconscious bias. If you think you should be doing something in a certain way, you'll find reasons to do that. And she sort of says flip that on its head and find a reason not to do it, and you'll make better decisions by thinking in that way.

[ 00:42:55 ] So I'd really recommend it. If anyone's sort of interested in the sort of psychology of decision-making and how we sort of go through our life making decisions, it's a really great book for business and personal. Very good. What was the name? It's the Scout Mindset. Very good. Cool. I will have a look for sure. And is there any tool or an app that you would say that you can't live without? Yeah. It's funny. I'm a bit of a social media addict, but I'm trying to not do that. Are you? Yeah. It sort of comes with the territory of our business, I think. It's not a good thing. But actually, I think that there's a tool that I use most and that is; I cycle a lot, I'm actually training for a 312-kilometer ride that I'm doing in April.

[ 00:43:50 ] Um, yeah, I'm sort of regretting regretting that decision already. Um, but I have like; I have a Garmin bike computer, and it honestly it's incredible, it's the best thing about it because, yeah, I now live in the countryside as well. I used to live in London, so cycling around London was easy. Now I live in the countryside; I would never find my way home without it. Would be impossible. And it also likes measuring like the power and your heart rate, telling you when you should be drinking water and eating-it's solar-like energy, and oh, it's just brilliant! So yeah, I'll never make it back to my desk without that. Yes, perfect. Very nice. So maybe then I can suggest that it's getting a bit more personal now.

[ 00:44:35 ] If you weren't working at Acceleration Partners and in our industry, you would then be a cyclist? Or what else would you do? Yeah, yeah. I'd love to be able to spend a lot of days cycling. Do you know what I'd really love? And this is all my dream. Maybe when I retire, I'd love to have a little café. Like where like cyclists stop and they have their coffee and their flapjack or brownie or whatever, I saw some of these in Australia once. There is this um on the west coast, you can cycle like forever alongside the beach, there's only this street and every now and then there comes a cafe and they have avocado coffee stuff like that, and you have all these poor people and stopping by, that's really cool, it's a really cool atmosphere, yeah, yeah, I'd love, I'd love to do that, maybe one day we'll see. It's good. Good. Thank you so much Helen for sharing all these insights and experiences with us. Very good discussion. Thank you. My pleasure. Thank you very much.